Creedence Clearwater Revival – “Green River”

John Fogerty Copyright 1969 Jondora Music

In 1969, Creedence Clearwater Revival accomplished the unthinkable: releasing three career-defining albums in a single year. At the heart of this creative explosion was “Green River,” a track that reached #2 on the charts and perfectly encapsulated the band’s “swamp rock” aesthetic. Let’s dive deep into the mastermind of John Fogerty, revealing how he his Rickenbacker and a solid-state Kustom amp to create the raw guitar tone that created an indelible riff. We also look at the locked-in rhythm section of Stu Cook and Doug Clifford and the driving force that Fogerty famously dubbed “chooglin’.”

Beyond the music, this episode uncovers the nostalgic and sociopolitical layers of the lyrics. While the song evokes the bayous of Louisiana, its true origins lie in Fogerty’s childhood memories of Putah Creek in California… and a lime-flavored soda pop. We’ll look at how the smoldering world of 1969—marked by the Vietnam War and recent political assassinations—crept into Fogerty’s writing, transforming a childhood reminiscence into a plea for a simpler time. Whether you are a recording nerd interested in the studio minutia, or a casual fan of great rock, this episode offers a comprehensive look at a timeless American masterpiece.


Words & Music by John Fogerty Copyright 1969 Jondora Music

TRANSCRIPT:

Come on home to the “I’m in Love With That Song” podcast, one of the Pantheon family of podcasts. My name is Brad Page and on each edition of this show, I pick one of my favorite songs and we explore it together, listening for all those special elements, those magic moments that make it a great song. We don’t get into music theory on this show; we focus on the arrangements, the performances, and the production that make the song work. So, you don’t need to be a musician to enjoy this show; this is a podcast for every music fan.

As we’ve done in our last couple of episodes, we’re revisiting a band that we featured on this show once before. It’s been about four years since we discussed Creedence Clearwater Revival—I can’t believe it was that long ago, actually. So, let’s return to this classic American band and explore how a group from San Francisco was able to capture the swamp rock atmosphere of the American Deep South. This is one of my favorite Creedence Clearwater Revival tracks; this is “Green River”.

[Audio Clip: “Green River”]

Back on that previous episode where we explored “Run Through the Jungle”—and if you haven’t heard that episode, go back and listen to it, it’s a good one—on that episode, we covered the early history of Creedence, so I’m not going to go over that again. We’ll pick things up in 1969. Many people consider 1969 to be the peak year for Creedence Clearwater Revival. In the span of this single year, the band released three career-defining albums: Bayou Country in January, Green River in August, and Willy and the Poor Boys in November.

John Fogerty, the mastermind behind Creedence, was always afraid that the audience would forget about the band if they weren’t inundating the airwaves with a steady stream of hit singles. “Green River” was the song that kicked off the album of the same name: side one, track one. It was released as a single in July ’69, a month before the album came out. It was written by John Fogerty and performed by Fogerty on lead guitar and lead vocal, his brother Tom Fogerty on rhythm guitar, Stu Cook on bass, and Doug Clifford on drums. It was recorded at Wally Heider Studios in San Francisco, produced by John Fogerty and engineered by Russ Gary.

The song opens with John Fogerty’s electric guitar riff. An acoustic guitar joins about halfway through before the drums and the bass kick in. Okay, first, let’s not bury the lead. Let’s take a look at Fogerty’s guitar part. It’s the crux of the song. It’s based around an E7 chord, and you don’t need to know anything about the theory behind it. Just know that the key of E, it’s the ultimate guitar key, and Fogerty works it for all its worth, hanging on this chord for extended periods. Playing in E allows him to include an open-string drone, which is often referred to as a pedal tone. That’s a term originated by pipe organ players who would use their feet to hold down low notes using pedals. But in a more general sense, it refers to a note that’s held or repeated while other notes are played over the top. In this case, Fogerty plays a pattern of notes that slowly descends while the E is sustained underneath.

[Audio Clip: Guitar Riff]

You’ll notice that that guitar is placed primarily in the right channel, and his guitar tone is pretty raw. There’s almost a brittle edge to it. I wouldn’t call it a warm tone, which is what many guitarists go for. I would chalk up that tone mostly due to the guitar amp that was used. John Fogerty preferred amps made by the Kustom company—that’s Kustom with a K—specifically, the K200A model. Kustom amps are distinctive due to their Naugahyde tuck-and-roll upholstery. But what’s important to the sound here is that these were solid-state amplifiers, not amps that use tubes, which were and still are preferred by most guitarists over solid-state amps. Tube amps have a natural compression that happens when you hit them with a loud sound; it’s a very pleasing tone. Solid-state amplifiers don’t do that. They have a much faster transient response and respond instantly with a harder, uncompressed sound. That is where the sharp, raspy tone comes from.

Now, as to which guitar Fogerty was playing, I’ve seen conflicting reports. Some sources say it’s a Gibson Les Paul Custom or a Gibson ES-175. You can find photos of Fogerty playing both of those models during this time period. But Fogerty also played a Rickenbacker 325—that’s the same model that John Lennon used to play—and I think Fogerty himself has said that that was the guitar he used here. So, I’m going to take his word for it, and that sounds right to me.

As far as the acoustic guitar, that was a Gibson J-200, which I assume was played by his brother Tom Fogerty. The acoustic is recorded a little “boomy”, not a lot of high end, and is mixed towards the left channel, so each guitar has its own space in the mix. The acoustic guitar is also just hanging on that E chord.

[Audio Clip: Guitars together]

You can also hear there’s a tambourine overdubbed there. So, after establishing the riff by playing it a few times, they launch into the first verse.

[Audio Clip: First Verse]

So, that first verse really sets the tone for where we’re going here. “Well, take me back down where the cool water flows, let me remember the things that I love.” So, it’s about a yearning for a return to a place and a time long past. And then he reminisces about some of these things: stopping at the log where the catfish bite, walking along the river road at night, and those barefoot girls dancing in the moonlight.

So, it’s a trip down memory lane, but it’s more than that. You might say it’s a longing for a more innocent time. That line about the dancing barefoot girls is interesting because it sort of speaks to an early sexual awareness, just starting to discover those feelings right before things get complicated. I think that’s a key element of this song: the desire for a life less complicated.

[Audio Clip: Verse continues]

You’ll notice the vocals have that classic slap-back echo on them, right out of the Sun Records playbook, like an old Elvis or Jerry Lee Lewis record. Another interesting note for you recording studio nerds out there: John Fogerty is singing into a Shure SM56 microphone. That was a relatively inexpensive mic; essentially, it’s a Shure SM57 but with an integrated pistol-grip stand mount. These are decent microphones for recording snare drums and guitar amps, but almost never used in the studio to record lead vocals. This mic was chosen by engineer Russ Gary, but why he chose this particular mic, I don’t really know. He said that this was the only time he ever used this mic for Fogerty’s vocal, so it was definitely an oddball choice. But it works.

With the second verse, you can imagine Fogerty reminiscing about his favorite swimming hole.

[Audio Clip: Second Verse]

There’s a nice little doubled guitar part that’s added in there. So, that verse is the first mention of Green River. There is no actual place named Green River, at least not as articulated in this song. One of Fogerty’s tendencies as a songwriter—you could call it a quirk or a stroke of genius, depending on how you look at it—but he was always evoking the sights and sounds of the South: New Orleans, the Mississippi River, the bayou. But Fogerty was a California boy, born and raised. He might have made you envision someplace in the South, but his actual childhood memory here is of Putah Creek near the town of Winters, California.

So, where did the name Green River come from? Well, Putah Creek doesn’t exactly sound as charming as Green River, and it’s not as easy to sing. So, Fogerty looked back to another childhood memory, this one of drinking one of his favorite beverages. Richard C. Jones, who owned a sweet shop, created Green River, a lime-flavored soft drink or soda pop, in Davenport, Iowa, in 1916. In 1919, he sold the formula to a Chicago brewing company who would switch to making soda during Prohibition. Eventually, other bottlers began to sell the flavor, but by the 1990s, it had all but disappeared. Though you can still buy bottles of Green River today, you’ll have to seek it out.

That verse is followed by one of those guitar and vocal moments that is so uniquely a John Fogerty signature. Then that leads us right into a short guitar solo.

[Audio Clip: Guitar Solo]

We haven’t really talked about the other guys in the band, so let’s touch on them for a moment. Doug Clifford on drums and Stu Cook on bass in particular were the engine that drives this track forward. Neither of them is playing anything complex, and neither is Tom Fogerty on rhythm guitar, but they are all locked in together. At the center of the Creedence Clearwater Revival sound is that rhythm that’s often described as “chooglin'”. Fogerty wrote a song called “Keep On Chooglin’”; he may have invented that term, I don’t know. It’s hard to describe, but you know it when you hear it, and you’ll hear it on virtually every Creedence track. Let’s hear this rhythm section “choogle.”

[Audio Clip: Isolated Rhythm Section]

And that brings us to the final verse. A little bit of a shift in lyrical tone here. Let’s listen to the vocal track first.

[Audio Clip: Isolated Vocals]

All right, let’s look at these lyrics a little closer. First, he mentions Cody’s Camp. This was an actual place, a cabin near Putah Creek that was supposedly owned by a relative of Buffalo Bill Cody. Then he sings about flat-car riders and cross-tie walkers. These are men traveling by train unlawfully—what they used to call hoboes. Here we have Fogerty as a young boy among the drifters and the outsiders. And then Old Cody Junior must be the guy who owns that cabin, takes young John aside and warns him, “You’re going to find the world is smoldering, and if you get lost, come on home to Green River.”

The shadow of the grown-up world is creeping into this childhood memory. And thinking back to 1969, when this song was released, the Vietnam War was raging, and it was only a year out from the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy. The world was indeed smoldering. And really, looking around at our world now, when is the world ever not smoldering? But he ends the song with the plea or the reassurance that if you get lost, come on home to Green River. Now, let’s hear that final verse.

[Audio Clip: Final Verse and Outro]

Creedence Clearwater Revival, “Green River”.

“Green River” climbed the charts and reached number two. It was poised to hit number one, but it was kept out of the number one spot by “Sugar, Sugar”, a bubblegum pop song by a fake band, The Archies. Oh, the indignities! Creedence has the distinction of being the band with the most songs to reach number two without ever having a number one chart-topper. The Green River album also featured “Bad Moon Rising”, another hit that reached number two. It’s interesting to compare these two songs because while “Bad Moon Rising” juxtaposes some pretty dark lyrics with a really jaunty up-tempo beat, “Green River” sounds dark and moody even though its lyrics are more upbeat. But these are the quirks that make the music of CCR so memorable and endlessly fascinating, and it’s why these songs still stand out today.

Hope you enjoyed this episode. The “I’m in Love With That Song” podcast will return with another new episode in just about two weeks. All of our previous episodes are available on our website, lovethatsongpodcast.com, so if you missed any of them—and there are over 200 episodes now—or you just want to re-listen to an episode, you’ll find them all right there. And make sure you follow the show so that you never miss an episode.

Thanks for coming along for the ride; I really appreciate it. If you want to help the show out, the best thing you can do is to tell someone about it. Talk it up, share it with your friends and family, because recommendations from people like you are the best advertising I could ever ask for. So, thank you. I will meet you back here on the Pantheon Podcast Network for our next episode. Until then, get back down where the cool water flows, watch out for those barefoot girls dancing in the moonlight… and come on home to Green River.

RESOURCES & REFERENCES:

Bands & Artists:

Studios & Production:

Gear & Technical:

References & History:

Sources & Citations:

  • Levitin, This is Your Brain on Music (Sonic analysis).
  • Mix Online, “Classic Tracks: Fortunate Son/Green River” (Detailed recording logs, Russ Gary interview, gear specifics).
  • Wikipedia/Rolling Stone (2012 Interview, geography of the song).
  • Louder Sound/Classic Rock (Historical context, album imagery).
  • Louder Sound (John Fogerty interview, 1969 productivity).

Foghat – “Fool For The City”

Words & Music by Lonesome Dave Peverett Copyright 1975 Kohaw Music o/b/o Knee Trembler Music (ASCAP) c/o The Bicycle Music Company

In this episode, we’ll explore the story and sonic architecture behind Foghat’s 1975 arena rock anthem, “Fool for the City“. Tracing the band’s roots back to British blues rockers Savoy Brown, we dive into how Foghat solidified their heavy boogie sound and retreated to a remote studio in Vermont to record their breakthrough platinum album. And we’ll take a tour through the song’s isolated instrumental tracks, uncovering the characteristically dry 1970’s drum mix, producer Nick Jameson’s funky bass contributions, the one-of-a-kind voice of Lonesome Dave Peverett, and Rod Price’s classic guitar work.

Words & Music by Lonesome Dave Peverett Copyright 1975 Kohaw Music o/b/o Knee Trembler Music (ASCAP) c/o The Bicycle Music Company

TRANSCRIPT:

Hello once again, and welcome back to the “I’m in Love With That Song” podcast, beamed directly into your earholes courtesy of the Pantheon Podcast Network. As always, I’m your host, Brad Page, and each edition of this podcast, I pick a song from my library of favorites, and we explore it together, trying to get a better understanding of what makes a song work. Why do I love this song? We limit the technical jargon here and keep the music theory to a minimum. This is a show for anyone who loves music. You don’t have to be a musical expert to enjoy this show.

On this episode, we’ll continue our exploration of bands that have been featured on this podcast once before, as we revisit Foghat, one of the bands that defined the sound of 1970s arena rock. This time, we’re going straight to their most popular studio album and digging into the title cut. That’s right– this is Foghat with “Fool for the City”.

Back on episode 78, we explored Foghat’s take on “Honey Hush”. I did a quick overview of their career on that show, but it’s been a while, so let’s go over those details again.

By the mid to late 1960s, it seemed like London was overrun by young British musicians obsessed with American blues; Muddy Waters, Big Bill Broonzy, Howlin’ Wolf… these British kids couldn’t get enough of this music, whether it was Delta Blues or Chicago Blues or anything in between. Sure, there was an element of fetishization about it, but these kids genuinely loved this music, and they appreciated it a lot more than American white kids did at this time.

One of the premier British blues bands was Savoy Brown, led by guitarist Kim Simmons. Savoy Brown seemed to churn through members, but for a time, the band settled around six members. Along with Simmons were Chris Youlden on vocals, Bob Hall on piano, Tony Stevens on bass, Roger Earl on drums, and Lonesome Dave Peverett on rhythm guitar and occasional vocals.

This lineup of Savoy Brown released a handful of albums: Blue Matter and A Step Further both came out in 1969, and then Raw Sienna in 1970. At that point, Chris Youlden and Bob Hall had left the band, and Lonesome Dave took over the lead vocals for their next album Looking In.

After that album, Lonesome Dave Peverett, Roger Earl, and Tony Stevens all left the band to start their own group. Simmons was pushing the band in a jazzier direction, while the rest of the guys wanted to pursue a heavier boogie sound. “Boogie” was a straightforward, visceral sound, with the swing of the blues melded with the aggression of rock. Things came to a head in December 1970, when Simmons fired Stevens and put additional demands on Peverett and Earl. They decided to quit, and the three of them got together to start their own group.

What they needed now was a new lead guitarist, and they found just the guy in Rod Price. Price had been playing with Black Cat Bones, and his brilliant slide guitar playing earned him the nickname the bottle. His addition to the band transformed their sound. His searing slide guitar leads delivered the sound that gave the band its heavy edge.
So, the band had their lead guitarist and their sound nailed down. Now all they needed was a name. It was Peverett who provided Foghat.

The name Foghat was a meaningless word that Peverett made up during a game of Scrabble he played with his brother when they were kids. I guess the word stuck around, but it literally doesn’t mean anything.

The band met with quite a few record labels but found no takers until they met with Albert Grossman, who signed them to his Bearsville record label. Soon, they would relocate to New York.

They released their first album, self-titled, in 1972. It was produced by Dave Edmunds and featured their version of Muddy Waters’ “I Just Want to Make Love to You”, which became a staple of their live shows. It set the template for the Foghat sound. Take a classic blues tune, ramp it up, crank up the guitars, and belt out the vocals in Lonesome Dave’s distinctive style.

Three more albums followed, and though a big hit eluded them, the band built an audience, focusing on the US, growing a fan base through relentless touring. But that pace was grueling, and it took its toll. By 1975, Tony Stevens had enough and left the band. Now they were missing a bass player just as they were about to record their most ambitious album to date.

Nick Jameson had produced their previous album, Rock and Roll Outlaws, and he was lined up to produce this new record. Rather than audition a bunch of new bass players, the band turned to Nick Jameson and asked him to play bass on the album.  Nick was a guitarist and a keyboard player, but not an experienced bass player, but he took on the job and became their de facto bassist for this new album.

The band decided to decamp to a small studio in Vermont called Suntreader. Located in Sharon, Vermont, it was about as removed from the city as you could get. This allowed the band to focus on the music, but you gotta wonder how that influenced this title cut.

“Fool for the City” was written by Dave Peverett. It’s performed by Peverett on lead vocals and rhythm guitar, Rod Price on lead and slide guitar, Roger Earl on drums, and Nick Jameson on bass. It was produced by Jameson.

The song begins with a quick flam, probably on a floor tom, and then we’re into the opening riff.

The first thing I notice on this track is that the drums are pretty dry. I’m not really hearing any reverb. That’s pretty standard for a 1970s recording. It wasn’t until the 1980s that they started putting tons of reverb on the drums to the point where the drum sounds got kind of ridiculous, at least in my opinion. But this dry drum sound is pretty typical of the 1970s. Let’s bring up the drums and listen to that for a bit.

Now let’s go back and play the intro through to the first verse.

That first verse pretty much lays out the thesis for this song. Not a lot of subtext here. “The country sure is pretty, but I’ll leave it all behind.” Let’s bring up that vocal track by Lonesome Dave Peverett.

There’s the chorus, classic gang vocals on the chorus there, and definitely plenty of reverb on the vocals. Let’s bring that up in the mix.

Now, before they start the second verse, there’s a short bit with some harmonized guitar parts. Let’s bring that forward a bit.

I like that because it serves as a transition from the chorus to the verse, and it gives you something new to keep things fresh.

Let’s go back and hear just the instrumental track for the verse to hear what’s going on underneath the vocals.

And back to the chorus.

And that brings us to the bridge. There are two distinct parts to the bridge. Let’s tackle the first part.

First, we’ll hear the instrumental track without the vocals. Like most of the song, there are at least two guitars panned left and right, but in this section, there’s another guitar in there right in the middle. It sounds like there’s some phasing or flanging on that guitar as well.

Okay, let’s hear that with the vocals now.

The vocals are doubled there. Another thing that I’m noticing is that the vocals are mixed pretty low throughout this song. Sometimes the guitars almost drown them out. Dave Peverett has a great voice, but Foghat was definitely a guitar band.

Let’s move on to the second part of the bridge, and things get funky here. It was Nick Jameson who came up with this idea, and it really adds a whole new element to the song.

All right, let’s dissect this part. First, let’s just hear Dave’s vocal. It’s pretty much a spoken word part.

And now the instrumental parts. Some interesting things happening here. There’s an acoustic guitar playing that country blues riff. It’s the first time we’ve heard an acoustic guitar in this song. And Nick Jameson is playing some slap bass that’s kind of a counterpart to that acoustic guitar. I like the way those two play off of each other. And then there are some electric guitars that come up in the left and right channel, both with an envelope filter or auto-wah effect on them. It’s a very specific kind of sound. All these parts work together in a pretty interesting way. Let’s hear all of that.

And that leads right into a guitar solo, giving Rod Price a moment to shine. Rod was mostly known for his slide playing, but he’s not using any slide here.

Now, listen to how Rod Price incorporates some of the vocal melody into his solo here. And they’ve also added some backing vocals, but they’re doing something different than what they do during the other choruses. It’s all kind of clever.

And that leads right into a reprise of the bridge.

This time around, Lonesome Dave uses more of his singing voice than the spoken word. Let’s hear that in the final mix and listen to Jameson’s funky bass part here.

That time around, there’s no acoustic guitar part there, which leaves room for Jameson’s bass to really jump out of the mix. And notice how the band builds up out of that section into these final choruses. It’s a really nice way to create some excitement leading into the finale.

As Dave Peverett ad-libs his vocals over the top, Nick Jameson’s bass and Roger Earl’s drums get a little more frantic, busier, driving the song to its conclusion.

And now Rod Price has overdubbed some more guitar licks, adding even more energy to the track.

Foghat – “Fool for the City”

Besides the title cut, the album also includes “Slow Ride”, their biggest hit. The album would become their first platinum album. And in 1977, they released their live album, Foghat Live, which would become their biggest-selling album.

But by 1979, trends changed and new sounds were capturing the attention of the general public, and Foghat fell out of fashion. They continued to release albums into the 1980s with diminishing returns.

Rod Price left the band in 1980, and they continued on for a while with a guitarist named Erik Cartwright, but they eventually split around 1984. There were a number of reunions with various lineups, but I don’t think anything captured the highlights of their 1970s peak.

Lonesome Dave Peverett, one of the most distinctive singers of his era, died in February 2000 from kidney cancer. He was 56. Rod Price was living in Wilton, New Hampshire, not far from where I lived, when he suffered a heart attack and fell down a flight of stairs. He was 57.

But at the time of this recording, Nick Jameson and Roger Earl are still with us, and Earl still tours with a version of Foghat.

Thanks for joining me for this edition of the “I’m in Love With That Song” podcast. I will be back in two weeks with another new episode. If for some unexplainable reason you just can’t bear to wait two weeks, you can relisten to all of our previous shows on our website, lovethatsongpodcast.com.

You can support the show by going to oldglory.com and buying some merch from your favorite artists. They even have a Fool for the City T-shirt that you can buy. And if you use our discount code, lovethatsong, you’ll save 15% and you’ll be helping to support this show. That’s oldglory.com with the discount code, lovethatsong.

Thank you for being part of this show here on the Pantheon Podcast Network, where fans belong. Now let’s turn up the volume and crank up “Fool for the City” by Foghat.

RESOURCES & LINKS:

  • Foghat: Visit their Official Website for current tour dates, official merchandise, and their latest music releases.
  • Savoy Brown: The Official Savoy Brown Website features news and details on founder Kim Simmonds’ autobiography, which chronicles his six-decade journey in blues-rock.
  • Muddy Waters: The Muddy Waters Foundation is dedicated to preserving the history of the blues and supporting emerging blues musicians.
  • Howlin’ Wolf: The Howlin’ Wolf Memorial Site offers detailed biographical insights, rare photographs, and stories covering his incredible life and legacy.
  • Lonesome Dave Peverett: His Concord Music Publishing profile highlights his massive impact as the founding member of Foghat and the writer behind defining hits like “Slow Ride” and “Fool For The City”.
  • Nick Jameson: His Discogs Profile outlines his eclectic and prolific career as a producer, engineer, voice actor, and multi-instrumentalist.
  • Rod Price obituary: https://www.the-independent.com/news/obituaries/rod-price-530402.html

Record Labels & Studios:

  • Bearsville Records: You can explore the ongoing legacy of Albert Grossman’s iconic label and its artists at the Bearsville Center. For a complete visual history of their original album art, catalog numbers, and tracklists, the Bearsville Discogs page is an invaluable database.
  • Suntreader Studios: The Suntreader Studios Discogs page catalogs the various releases cut at this remote Sharon, Vermont location, including Foghat’s platinum milestone.

Merchandise Sponsor: oldglory.com (Use code Lovethatsong for 15% off)

Podcast Network: Pantheon Podcast Network

Cheap Trick – “Dream Police”

Words & Music by Rick Neilsen Copyright 1979 Screen Gems-EMI Music and Adult Music

What happens when a record label shelves a band’s most ambitious studio work to capitalize on a surprise live hit? On this episode, we explore this unique moment in rock history and analyze “Dream Police” by Cheap Trick — the title track of the album that sat on a shelf for nine months while Cheap Trick at Budokan conquered the world. We’ll step through the song’s complex architecture, revealing how Rick Nielsen combined lyrics of paranoia with a hard-rocking guitar riff and a heavily orchestrated, at times “horror-movie” vibe.

The episode goes beyond the surface, isolating the tricky guitar melodies, the pre-chorus drama, and the disorienting shift in time signatures. You will gain a new appreciation for the technical prowess of Robin Zander’s vocals, Tom Petersson’s 12-string bass, and Bun E. Carlos’s Moon-esque drumming. Whether you’re a lifelong fan or a newcomer to the “hardest working band in show business,” this episode illustrates why “Dream Police” remains an inescapable classic and a testament to the band’s survival and creativity.

Words & Music by Rick Neilsen Copyright 1979 Screen Gems-EMI Music and Adult Music

TRANSCRIPT:

The smallest bones in your body are in your middle ear. Referred to as the hammer, the anvil, and the stirrup—those are some pretty rock and roll names– these three bones are the first bones in your body to fully ossify; they’re done developing by the time you’re born, and they never grow any bigger. Each of these bones is tiny– smaller than a grain of rice; you could fit all of them on the tip of your finger. But from these tiniest of bones comes a whole universe of creativity and imagination.

This is the I’m in Love with that Song podcast, and I’m your host Brad Page. We’re here on the Pantheon Media Network, and on each edition of this show, I pick a favorite song and we dive into it together, exploring all the nuances, the little moments, and special elements that turn a good song into a great one. If you’re not a musician or you don’t know anything about music theory, don’t worry about it, because we don’t get too technical on this show. All you need is a love for music and a little bit of curiosity, and you’ll fit right in here.

On this episode, we’re heading back to 1979, when one of the all-time great bands was at the top of their game. Cheap Trick were coming off the smash hit live At Budokan album, which they followed up with an album that pushed their sound forward. Stick around as we explore the title cut from this album. This is Cheap Trick with “Dream Police”.

[Music plays]

We’ve discussed Cheap Trick a couple of times before on this show, including an overview of their early career leading up to the At Budokan album. On that show, I was joined by Brian Kramp from the Rock and/or Roll podcast, who wrote the definitive book on Cheap Trick’s history. That book is called This Band Has No Past: How Cheap Trick Became Cheap Trick, and if you don’t have it, go get it—it is a great book. And go back and listen to that episode if you haven’t heard it; it’ll catch you up on the origin of Cheap Trick.

So, I’m not going to cover that same ground here. We’ll pick up the story after the release of the At Budokan album, and that’s a pretty famous story all in itself. Cheap Trick were struggling to break through to the masses in the U.S., but they had managed to gain rock star status in Japan. A live album was recorded during their 1978 tour of Japan, and it was intended as a Japanese-only release. But American radio stations started playing it, and word of this killer import-only live album caught on. Epic Records realized that if they released it in the U.S., they could have a hit on their hands—which they certainly did. When that album came out in the U.S. in February 1979, Cheap Trick At Budokan would eventually sell over three million copies.

Which was great, except for one thing: Cheap Trick had already recorded their next studio album, and it was ready to be released when the record company decided to put it back on the shelf and release the live album globally instead. So the new album, the band’s most ambitious record to date, sat unreleased for at least nine months.

This new album was produced by Tom Werman and engineered by Gary Ladinsky. Along with band members Robin Zander on lead vocals and guitar, Rick Nielsen on lead guitar and occasional vocals, Tom Petersson on bass, and Bun E. Carlos on drums, the band was augmented by some additional studio musicians, most notably Jai Winding, who added keyboards and also helped with the string arrangements. The addition of strings on this album really expanded the sound of this album, but there was another technical decision that contributed to this album’s sound. This was one of the first handful of recordings to be made with the 3M Digital Audio Mastering system, a system that offered 32 tracks of digital recording.

The song that opens the album, side one, track one, would also give the album its name: “Dream Police”. The song was written by Rick Nielsen and performed by Nielsen on guitar, mandocello, and vocals; Robin Zander on lead vocals and probably some rhythm guitar; Bun E. Carlos on drums; and Tom Petersson on 12-string bass.[1] Also appearing on the track are Jai Winding on piano and organ, and producer Tom Werman and engineer Gary Ladinsky also chip in with some background vocals.

The song kicks off with two flams on the snare drum, and we’re off and running.

[Music plays]

The track is already sonically full right from the start, but it’s still just guitars, bass, and drums, and the strings. Before we get any further, let’s just take a minute to look at the parts. Along with the drums, there are two guitar parts panned left and right.

[Music plays]

Then there’s the string parts, which are very dramatic. These are not lush, gentle, romantic strings; there’s a lot of energy and power in this string arrangement.

[Music plays]

And then, underneath it all, is Tom Petersson’s bass part, played on his trademark 12-string bass, which is such a part of the Cheap Trick sound. It blends in with the final mix so it doesn’t necessarily stand out any different than a standard bass part, but when you hear it in isolation, then you can really hear all of those strings ringing out and what it adds to the overall sound and feel of the track.

[Music plays]

We will take a closer look at all of these parts as we go through the song, but for now, let’s move on. The song begins with the chorus, though that’s not exactly a rarity; it is a little less common for a rock song to lead off with the chorus.

[Music plays]

That leads immediately into the first verse. And I think what really makes these verses work, besides the great vocal by Robin Zander, is the combination of the organ, which sounds straight out of a horror movie, and Tom Petersson’s bass part. That 12-string bass really delivers something special here

[Music plays]

The guitar basically lays out most of the verse and just adds some accent chords. Let’s go back and listen to those two parts I mentioned before. First, the organ:

[Music plays]

And here’s the bass part:

[Music plays]

The next section—let’s call that the pre-chorus—perfectly builds the drama into the chorus. Let’s break this down bit by bit.

[Music plays]

First, notice how on the second half of that line, “They’re looking for me,” Petersson doubles the vocal melody on his bass.

[Music plays]

Next, all the instruments and the vocals, they all hit the same syncopated beats together.

[Music plays]

Let’s bring up the drums a little bit in the mix here.

[Music plays]

And another nice little touch is how Rick Nielsen is sliding down out of each of those chord hits. Let’s hear that.

[Music plays]

All right, let’s move on to the next bit. Both the guitar and the bass are playing a nice little descending riff there.

[Music plays]

Okay, let’s keep going. And let’s hear Bun E. Carlos one more time with that drum fill that leads us into the chorus.

[Music plays]

All right, now that we’ve heard that all chopped up, let’s go back and play through the whole pre-chorus into the chorus.

[Music plays]

Let’s look at the vocals on the chorus. Sounds to me like Robin Zander has double-tracked his main vocal, with what I assume is Rick, Tom Werman, and Gary Ladinsky providing the falsetto backing vocals.

[Music plays]

And that brings us to the second verse. And this time, let’s bring up Robin Zander’s vocal first.

[Music plays]

Okay, now let’s hear the final mix of that verse.

[Music plays]

Bun E. Carlos plays some nice drum fills coming out of that verse, so let’s hear that for a second.

[Music plays]

And that brings us to another pre-chorus and chorus. Let’s focus on the vocals again.

[Music plays]

And now we’ve reached the bridge, which is a spoken word part by Rick Nielsen. Let’s just hear his vocal.

[Music plays]

And now we’ll listen to it in context.

[Music plays]

And then there’s a really short guitar solo. It’s nothing flashy, just Rick playing this almost woozy melody; it’s a little disorienting, almost like waking up from a dream.

[Music plays]

That little string part there really adds a lot. And that takes us into one final pre-chorus.

[Music plays]

Now, they’re going to stretch out this last line as the song builds. The bass will hold down the root note while Rick Nielsen’s guitar will climb—slowly at first, then faster. They’re just wringing every bit of drama out of this one chord.

[Music plays]

And we’ve reached a new section of the song, a heavily orchestrated part. All the instruments—the drums, the bass, the guitar, and the strings—each have a different part to play. And to make it even more disorienting, the time signature will shift: two measures of four beats, and then one measure of three beats. And that pattern will continue through this section: two measures of 4/4, one measure of 3/4. Let’s break it down starting with the drums. Bun E. Carlos is playing a part that reminds me of Keith Moon, though not as manic—of course, no one was as manic as Keith Moon.

[Music plays]

Next, let’s hear Rick Nielsen’s guitar. He’s playing these crazy arpeggiated chords; they’re almost dissonant in places, which just adds to the disorientation along with those shifting time signatures.

[Music plays]

In contrast, the bass is playing steady, rapidly picking one note at a time, slowly climbing until he hits a plateau alternating between two notes.

[Music plays]

And finally, the strings are playing an intense cinematic part building to their own crescendo.

[Music plays]

Now let’s hear all of that together as it builds until it finally explodes into the last choruses.

[Music plays]

You can hear some handclaps overdubbed here.

[Music plays]

“Dream Police” – Cheap Trick

Though the At Budokan album would remain Cheap Trick’s best-selling album, Dream Police was their biggest studio album. The song “Dream Police” is maybe the perfect example of Rick Nielsen’s one-of-a-kind songwriting: combining a lyric of nightmare and paranoia with a guitar riff that just rocks hard and orchestration that makes the song a cinematic anthem.

A lot has happened since 1979, but Cheap Trick is still making records and touring consistently. They remain one of the hardest-working bands in the business. And though Bun E. Carlos is no longer a member of the band, all four of the original members are still alive and well at the time of this recording. Cheap Trick are true survivors in every sense of the word.

“Dream Police” is one of those songs that’s just ingrained in my life. I was in high school when it came out, and the song was inescapable. A few years later, when I bought my first car—a second-hand Plymouth Satellite Sebring—it had an old eight-track player in it, so I went out and bought a bunch of second-hand eight-tracks to play in the car. I probably owned maybe six albums on eight-track, but one of them was Dream Police.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the I’m in Love with that Song podcast. Don’t forget to follow the show so that you never miss an episode. New episodes come out on the 1st and the 15th of every month, so there’ll be another episode coming your way soon. And there’s over 200 previous episodes of this show; if you missed any of them, you can find them all on our website, lovethatsongpodcast.com. I always like to hear your thoughts. You can communicate with us on Facebook—just look for the I’m in Love with that Song podcast there—or send an email to lovethatsongpodcast@gmail.com.

It always helps if you leave a positive review wherever you listen to this show, so thanks for that. But the best thing you can do to support us is to tell someone about the show, recommend it to your friends or family. A good word from listeners like you, that is priceless.

I’ll be back here on the Pantheon Podcast Network with a new episode soon. Until then, watch out for the dream police. Sleep tight…

RESOURCES & REFERENCES:

Bands & Artists

Books & Research

Record Labels & Media

Technical References

Wilson Pickett – “Get Me Back On Time, Engine Number 9 (Parts 1 & 2)”

(Kenny Gamble & Leon Huff) Copyright 1970

Wilson Pickett, a name synonymous with soul music, has a catalog filled with timeless classics. From “In the Midnight Hour” to “Mustang Sally,” his influence on the genre is undeniable. But in this episode, we focus on one of his lesser-discussed yet equally powerful–and damn funky– tracks, “Get Me Back on Time, Engine Number 9 (Parts 1 & 2)“. This song is a testament to Pickett’s versatility and the genius of Gamble & Huff and the production team at Sigma Sound.

“Get Me Back On Time, Engine Number 9 (Parts 1 & 2)” (Kenny Gamble & Leon Huff) Copyright 1970

Take advantage of our discount code lovethatsong and save 15% off t-shirts & merch from your favorite bands at OldGlory.com!

TRANSCRIPT:

Okay, all you midnight movers and night owls, the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast is back with another episode, right here on the Pantheon Podcast Network. My name is Brad Page, and I’m the host of this here show, where we take a look at a different song each episode and explore the performance and production choices that turn a good song into a great one. Don’t worry if you’re not a musician or you don’t know anything about music theory, because none of that is required here. We don’t get too technical. We just try to open up our ears and listen.

On this edition of the podcast, we’re going to revisit one of my favorite soul singers, a real legit legend: Wilson Pickett, and a little bit of psychedelic soul with a song called “Get Me Back On Time, Engine Number Nine”.

We spent some time with Wilson Pickett back on Episode 96 of this podcast, where we explored the song “99 And A Half Won’t Do”. So I’m not going to go over this same ground again. You can go back and listen to that episode if you want that info. But quick review: Wilson Pickett was born in Alabama in March 1941. His first taste of success came with The Falcons when he sang lead on their hit “I Found A Love”. But he soon departed The Falcons, eventually landing at Atlantic Records and cut some classic singles down at Stax Records’ Studio in Memphis– a handful of the greatest R&B singles ever recorded. “In The Midnight Hour”, “634-5789”, “99 And A Half Won’t Do”. And then after that, he had an even more remarkable run down at Fame studios in Muscle Shoals, Alabama, cutting absolutely legendary tracks like “Land of a Thousand Dances”, “Funky Broadway”, “Soul Dance Number Three”, and of course, “Mustang Sally”.

Pickett also began exploring material outside of straightforward R&B. He was particularly good at taking rock songs and adapting them to fit his style. One of the first and best of these covers was his version of “Hey Jude” by the Beatles.

Playing guitar on that session was a brilliant young guitarist named Duane Allman. In fact, it was Duane who suggested Wilson cover “Hey Jude”. When Eric Clapton heard Duane’s playing on “Hey Jude”, it instantly caught his attention. It was the first time he had heard of Duane Allman.

About a year later, Clapton would invite Duane to play on the Derek and the Dominoes sessions, making history. But that’s a subject for another podcast.

Over the ensuing years, Pickett would cover more rock songs, including “Born To Be Wild”, “Groovin’”, “Hey Joe”, a killer version of “Fire and Water”, originally by Free. He even had a hit with a cover of “Sugar Sugar” by the Archies.

But back in 1970, Wilson’s creative burst at Muscle Shoals eventually ran its course. So Atlantic Records moved him up to Philadelphia to work with Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, the hot new writer-producer duo working out of Sigma Sound. The result was the album “Wilson Pickett in Philadelphia”, which probably as an album, opposed to singles, it’s probably my favorite Wilson Pickett album.

That album featured two hits, “Don’t Let The Green Grass Fool You”, which hit number two on the R&B chart, and “Engine Number nine”, which made it to number three.

“Engine Number Nine”, officially titled “Get Me Back On Time, Engine Number Nine (Parts 1 & 2)”, two developed out of a jam session at Sigma Sound. Wilson was encouraging the band to find the right groove, a heavy one. They cut one take, clocking in at about three and a half minutes. Then they did it again with the final version running six minutes and 25 seconds. To release it on a 45 revolutions-per-minute seven inch single, they had to split it in two– hence the part one and part two of the title.

The band in Philly included Bobby Eli, Norman Harris and Roland Chambers, all on guitars, Tom Bell on organ, Eugene Dozier and Lenny Pakula on piano, Ronnie Baker on bass, Vince Montana on vibes and percussion, Earl Young on drums, and Sam Reed and his horn section on horns. The song was written and produced by Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff.

The song kicks off with a snare drum fill. Then the bass comes in, along with some percussion. There’s quite a few different percussion elements used in this song. Right here we’re hearing a cowbell and a shaker, primarily in the right channel. And now here comes the main riff.

Okay, there’s actually a lot going on here. Just looking at the percussion by itself, you’ve got the drums, cowbell, some other kind of drum in there– could be a conga or a timbale, doesn’t really sound like either of those to me. Could just be a tom, I’m not sure.

And then there’s this kind of wacky sound made by something called a “vibraslap”. It’s a strange looking contraption, a metal rod that’s kind of bent in the shape of the letter “R”, with a wooden ball at one end and what looks like a wood cowbell at the other end, with some metal pins in it that rattle when it vibrates. It’s hard to describe, just go look it up on the internet if you want to see what it looks like. But the vibraslap kind of sounds like a rattlesnake. You’ll hear it in all kinds of songs. Everything from “Sweet Emotion” by Aerosmith to “Short Skirt Long Jacket” by Cake, and “Crazy Train” by Ozzy. You’ll hear the vibraslap all through this track.

Then there’s the bass. At least two guitars, one clean tone, one totally fuzzed out. And, I believe, an electric piano in the left channel, duplicating the bass part.

There’s this nasty, crashing, scratchy sound that occurs occasionally. That’s the fuzz tone guitar doing that part.

So, after a couple of measures of that setting the groove, Wilson comes in with the vocal.

The groove is gonna shift a little bit here. And I especially like these guitar parts.

Let’s go back, drop the vocals out, and just listen to what the band is doing, because I think they’re playing great here.

Next, we get a whacked-out guitar solo from Bobby Eli. Guitar sounds don’t get any nastier than this. If I had to take a wild guess, I’d say he’s using a Univox Super Fuzz pedal to get that sound. It’s like an ice pick in your eardrum– In a good way.

Once again, I want to go back. This time, I just want to hear the bass and the drums.

Let’s bring everyone back in. Listen to Bobby Eli’s guitar here. And here’s a vintage Wilson Pickett scream for you.

The clean guitar comes forward in the mix here. I’m not sure if it’s Norman Harris or Roland Chambers who played this part. They change up the groove again. And the shaker returns.

Notice how they add an echo to the snare drum.

You’ve also got an organ in the left channel now. Bobby Eli’s guitar is just screeching, it’s feeding back all over the place. It’s pretty wild.

Let’s bring up the drums in the mix now. They’re going to break it down to just the drums and that fuzz tone guitar.

Slowly building it back up.

And now a break for just the drums and percussion.

This guitar part is actually two guitars, the clean one and the fuzz tone guitar bouncing back and forth, playing off of each other like it was one part. Listen to that big echo on the snare drum again.

Wilson Pickett – “Get Me Back On Time, Engine Number Nine (Parts 1 & 2)”

This would be the only album Wilson recorded in Philadelphia. He would return to Muscle Shoals for one more album for Atlantic Records, then he signed with RCA Records for a while, and then EMI, and even Motown.

But like many soul, funk, and R&Bartists, he got left behind when Disco became the hot new thing, and his career never really recovered, not in any commercial sense. Though he kept on working. He survived personal struggles with addiction and some pretty violent behavior as a result.

He released one final album– call it a comeback album if you want– in 1999, called “It’s Harder Now”. On January 19, 2006, at the age of 64, Wilson died from a heart attack. It was little Richard who delivered the eulogy at his funeral.

Wilson’s voice didn’t quite have the primal scream of James Brown, or the tenderness and depth of emotion as Otis Redding, but when matched with the right material– and more often than not, he was matched with the perfect material– Wilson Pickett was unbeatable. Has anyone recorded a better song than “In The Midnight Hour”? As good as sure, but better? I haven’t heard it. Wilson Pickett has at least a half a dozen songs in his catalog that are stone cold classics. In my opinion, he’s earned his place among the greats.

Thanks for tuning in to the Pantheon Podcast Network and listening to this edition of the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast. As always, new episodes of this show come out on the 1st and the 15th of every month, so I’ll see you back here in just over two weeks.

If you’d like to catch up on our previous episode on Wilson Pickett, you’ll find it on our website, lovethatsongpodcast.com, along with over 150 episodes on many other songs, all hand selected with care by me.

If you’d like to support the show, go buy a t-shirt at oldglory.com and use our promo code lovethatsong. Save a few bucks.

And please tell a friend about this show, because recommendations from smart, sophisticated listeners like you really are the number one thing that helps us grow.

So thanks again for listening to this episode on Wilson Pickett and “Get Me Back On Time, Engine Number Nine”.

RESOURCES:

Wilson Pickett
Wilson Pickett – Wikipedia

Atlantic Records
Atlantic Records

Stax Records
Stax Records

Fame Studios
Fame Studios

Sigma Sound
Sigma Sound Studios – Wikipedia

Kenny Gamble
Kenny Gamble – Wikipedia

Leon Huff
Leon Huff – Wikipedia

Paul McCartney And Wings – “Junior’s Farm”

P. McCartney, L. McCartney - Copyright 1974 MPL Communications Ltd.

We celebrate the 201st installment of the podcast by revisiting one of our first subjects– the legendary Paul McCartney and his band Wings, with the non-album single “Junior’s Farm.”

Released in November 1974, this track developed during McCartney’s escape to a Nashville farm during a tumultuous time in his life, following the breakup of The Beatles. Join us as we explore the song’s origins, the dynamic lineup of Wings during this period, and the memorable guitar work of Jimmy McCulloch, who made his mark with this track. We’ll dissect the song’s unique structure, the production choices, and the whimsical lyrics that embody McCartney’s signature style. This episode is a deep dive into a classic that showcases the artistry and evolution of one of music’s most beloved figures.

“Junior’s Farm” (P. McCartney, L. McCartney) Copyright 1974 MPL Communications Ltd.

TRANSCRIPT:

Low life, high life, oh, let’s go down to the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast. I’m your host, Brad Page, and we are here on the Pantheon Podcast Network– where fans belong– with another edition of the show where I pick one of my favorite songs and we explore it together.

For those of you keeping count, this is episode 201– the 201st episode of this podcast. Some of you have been with us since the very first episode, and you may remember that on our first show, episode one, we covered a song by Paul McCartney. It was a non-album track; actually, it was a B-Side. Well, here we are, exactly 200 episodes later, so I thought it would be nice to return to McCartney and another of his non-album tracks. This one was released as a single in November 1974; this is Paul McCartney and Wings with “Junior’s Farm”.

The seeds that would eventually develop into this song sprouted back in 1970, during the breakup of the Beatles. It’s a very contentious period for everyone involved; lots of business meetings with lawyers, and McCartney couldn’t wait for those meetings to end so he could escape to his farm in Scotland.

Cut to 1974, when McCartney and the current lineup of Wings, decamped to Nashville, Tennessee. They were invited to stay at a farm owned by Curly Putman, a Nashville songwriter. He was most famous for writing “Green Green Grass of Home”. Putman’s nickname just happened to be “Junior”.

The band’s visit to Tennessee was primarily to rehearse, but Buddy Killen, who had arranged their visit, also happened to own a studio called “Sound Shop”. So, of course, the band eventually ended up at that studio.

They would work up a handful of songs at Sound Shop, including a track called “Junior’s Farm”, which was actually the last song that they laid down at that studio. The band had been rehearsing the track out at the farm, so when they hit the studio, they were ready to record it more or less live.

This was an interesting period for Wings. The previous album, “Band On The Run”, had been recorded as a trio: Paul and Linda McCartney, and Denny Laine. But by this time, they had recruited two new members.

The first new addition was a 20-year-old Scottish guitarist named Jimmy McCulloch. Guitarist Jimmy McCulloch was something of a child prodigy. He started performing professionally when he was 14, and in 1969, when he was just 16, he joined Thunderclap Newman. They had a number one hit in England with “Something In The Air”, a track produced by Pete Townsend of The Who.

After that band split, Jimmy worked on a number of projects and did session work for John Entwistle and Harry Nilsson, and eventually joined the band Stone The Crows. He met Paul McCartney in August of 1973.

Paul’s brother Mike McCartney, better known as Mike McGear, was recording a solo album, and Paul had agreed to produce it. He did more than just produce it, though. He co-wrote most of the songs, and it’s almost a stealth Wings album as Paul, Linda and Denny play on every song… and Jimmy McCulloch was invited to play on the album too. Essentially, it was Jimmy’s audition for Wings, and by May of 1974, Jimmy became a member of Wings.

The next task was to find a new drummer. Paul let the word get out that he was looking for a new drummer, and after his office was deluged with over 400 phone calls, Paul narrowed the list down to 52 drummers who were invited to audition. And out of all those auditions, five finalists were selected. And in the end, a drummer named Geoff Britton was selected.

Geoff was from London, and he had played in a band called East Of Eden, and then with the Wild Angels. One of the songs he jammed on with Paul, Linda, Denny and Jimmy as part of his audition was an early version of “Junior’s Farm”, though it didn’t have a title yet. Like Jimmy, Geoff Britton became a member of Wings in May 1974.

\And this was the lineup that arrived at Curly Putman’s Farm in June of that summer.  Along with Geoff Britton on drums and Jimmy McCulloch on guitar, “Junior’s Farm” features Denny Laine on guitar and backing vocals, Linda McCartney on percussion, Fender Rhodes electric piano and backing vocals, and Paul McCartney on bass and lead vocal. The song was written by Paul and Linda McCartney, and produced by Paul. It was released on November 1, 1974 on Apple Records. This would be McCartney’s final release on Apple.

The song begins with an intro featuring harmonized guitar leads by Jimmy McCulloch and Denny Laine. The core parts of the song had been worked out for a while, but the intro and outro were late additions to the song. They came up with this intro just prior to entering the studio to start recording. Let’s hear just those guitars.

And that brings us into the main groove of the song, which makes up the verse section. You can hear McCartney interject a couple of “Ha”s in there. Before we get to the verse, let’s back that up again.

That is the first of many tasty guitar parts that Jimmy McCulloch adds to this song. This was Jimmy’s debut as Wings’ new guitar player, and he comes out of the gate firing on all cylinders here. Great guitar work by Jimmy all through this song. Jimmy McCulloch is one of my favorite guitar players, so we’re gonna pay attention to his playing throughout this track.

One of the interesting choices in the production of this song is the use of that phasing effect on the vocals throughout the song. That effect is also applied to the guitar at times, too.

That effect was not part of the original recording or the initial mixes done in Nashville. When McCartney returned to England, he made several more attempts to remix the song with various engineers, but he wasn’t happy with any of those mixes. Eventually, in October ‘74, McCartney let an engineer named Alan O’Duffy have a crack at mixing it. And one of the things O’Duffy added was that phasing effect. And this was the mix that finally met McCartney’s approval. That phasing effect particularly stands out on the chorus.

This song has always seemed to have somewhat of an unusual structure, to me anyway.  There are two verses, then the first chorus, and then a guitar solo. Then there are two more verses, two more choruses, a repeat of the intro, then two more verses; one is a repeat of the first verse; two final choruses, and the outro. But it always seemed to me that this guitar solo comes awfully early in the song. I would have expected it to come much later, but here it is, and it is a great guitar solo. It feels improvised. It was clearly done in one take; it’s a little rough around the edges, but it is so well-structured. It flows perfectly, and it’s melodic enough that you could sing it. It’s everything I want in a guitar solo. First, let’s hear the guitar track.

Now let’s hear that in context. And I always loved how McCartney calls out Jimmy by name before he starts to solo.

You get the feeling Paul was happy to show off his hot new guitar player.

That brings us to the third and fourth verses. The lyrics to the song don’t really mean anything. The chorus is just about McCartney’s desire to get out of the city and escape to his farm. The verses don’t really make any sense… they’re not supposed to. McCartney has written a number of songs filled with oddly impressionistic lyrics, and this is one of them. There’s the poker man, the Eskimo, and the sea lion from the first two verses.  This time around, we hear about Parliament, the President. He also references Ollie Hardy– if you remember Laurel and Hardy, the comedy team who were around from the 1920s to the 1950s– and he mentions something about Hardy buying a Gee-Gee who jumped the fence. Gee-Gee is apparently British slang for a race horse.

Let’s bring up the vocals for these two verses.

That brings us back to the chorus. So let’s listen to that, and again, notice that phasing effect on the vocals.

They repeat the chorus again here. That leads into a repeat of the introduction.  The first time around, we listened to just the guitars, so this time let’s hear what the bass and the drums are doing during this part.

Let’s hear the final mix, and notice how that phasing effect is applied to the guitars here.

McCartney’s adding in those “Ha”s again.

Let’s back out the vocals and listen to just the instrumental tracks. For this verse, Denny Laine’s guitar and Linda’s electric piano are primarily in the left channel, while Jimmy McCulloch’s guitar is leaned to the right, and it’s mixed quite a bit higher.

With the vocals in place, there’s one new verse, and then a repeat of the first verse, but this time with harmony vocals added.

Let’s hear just the vocals on that last verse and leading into the chorus.

And that closes out the body of the song and brings us into the outro– completely new part. This was a brand-new section that McCartney came up with in the studio as they recorded it. It was not worked out in advance.

They start to play a few notes of the intro– this time Paul doubles it on his bass– but then they hold a note and shift down to E minor in a dramatically different feel.

Okay, let’s examine a few things here, starting with the guitar part under this section.

And let’s listen to McCartney’s vocal here. This is his most intense vocal performance of the whole song. But before he lays into it, there’s a little bit of studio chatter that was left on the tape. Let’s hear all of that.

And Jimmy McCulloch gets in a few more nice bits before the song plays out. So let’s hear his guitar part.

Let’s put all those pieces back together and listen to the outro in full.

Wings – “Junior’s Farm”.

This lineup of Wings didn’t last long. After recording a handful of tracks in Tennessee, the band returned to England. The McCartneys headed to their High Park Farm in Scotland, where Paul could write some new songs. In late August, the band reconvened at Abbey Road to film a live-in-the-studio performance. Paul had a vision of releasing this as a television special that he wanted to call “One Hand Clapping”. But that footage remained unreleased until 2024.

The band began recording some new material in England in the fall, and then flew to New Orleans to work on what would become the “Venus And Mars” album. But after only a week, it was decided that Geoff Briton just wasn’t the right fit, and he was dismissed in January 1975… his tenure in Wings having lasted seven months.

Jimmy McCulloch was always a mercurial presence in the band; he was young, he was brash, and when he was under the influence of one substance or another, he could be pretty tough to deal with. But he was a brilliant player and a valuable contributor, so McCartney put up with it.  But eventually it just became too much, and Jimmy was let go from Wings in August of 1977.

Jimmy would go on to join the reformed Small Faces, but that didn’t last long. There was a short-lived attempt to put a band together with Brian Robertson from Thin Lizzy, but that fell apart quickly. He recorded one album with The Dukes, which had some promise… but on September 27, 1979, Jimmy McCulloch died from heart failure due to morphine and alcohol poisoning. He was just 26 years old.

Jimmy’s name never appears on the list of top guitarists from the 1970’s, but he’s always on my list of favorites. He could always be relied upon to deliver a concise, tasteful, memorable guitar solo. “Junior’s Farm” is a perfect example of that. I love Jimmy McCulloch’s playing.

 Thanks for listening to this edition of the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast. I used a few different resources to put this episode together, including an article in Mix Magazine by Barbara Schultz, and especially the fantastic book “The McCartney Legacy, Volume 2” by Alan Kozinn and Adrian Sinclair.  Gotta give them all credit for their hard work, and I highly recommend that book for any hardcore McCartney fan.

New episodes of this show come out on the 1st and the 15th of every month, so I’ll meet you back here in about two weeks. If you’d like to support the show, you can head over to oldglory.com and buy yourself a T-shirt or some band merch. They have stuff in stock from all your favorite artists, including plenty of Beatles and McCartney stuff. So place an order and use our discount code “LoveThatSong” to save 15%. That’s oldglory.com, discount code LoveThatSong, save 15%, and you’ll be helping to support this show. So thanks.

You can communicate with us on Facebook, just search for the “I’m In Love With That Song podcast”, you’ll find us.  Or email us at lovethatsongpodcast@gmail.com.

Share this episode with your friends and family and help spread the word. I’ll see you back here next time. Now, let’s all head down to “Junior’s Farm” — everybody tag along. Take me down, Jimmy!

Dr. John – “I Walk On Guilded Splinters”

John Creaux Copyright 1967 Warner-Tamerlane Publishing Corp and Skull Music

As Mardi Gras approaches, what better way to celebrate than by diving into the rich musical heritage of one of New Orleans’ favorite sons? In this week’s episode, we explore one of the city’s most iconic musicians, Dr. John, and his classic track, “I Walk on Gilded Splinters“. Released in 1968, this song is a perfect example of the unique blend of voodoo culture and psychedelic sound that characterizes Dr. John’s early work.

“I Walk on Gilded Splinters” is a mesmerizing track that runs over seven and a half minutes long, inviting listeners into a hypnotic soundscape and creates an immersive atmosphere that reflects the voodoo rituals Dr. John was inspired by. The lyrics are steeped in Creole culture, featuring references to voodoo spirits and the vibrant life of New Orleans.

So, whether you’re preparing for Mardi Gras festivities or simply curious about this spellbinding track, tune in to this episode and immerse yourself in the captivating world of Dr. John, The Night Tripper.

“I Walk On Guilded Splinters” – John Creaux [Mac Rebennack] Copyright 1967 Warner-Tamerlane Publishing Corp and Skull Music

TRANSCRIPT:

Welcome back to the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast, part of the Pantheon family of podcasts. I’m Brad Page, your host and each episode, I dive into my record collection and come up with one of my favorite songs for us to explore here on the podcast. Don’t worry if you’re not a musician, because we don’t get deep into music theory or technical jargon here. We’re just gonna listen closely to discover what makes these songs great.

This is Mardi Gras season this year, Mardi Gras is coming up in a few days. So I thought this year, we’d celebrate by exploring one of my favorite songs by New Orleans’ favorite son, Dr. John, from his very first album back in 1968– a classic track called “I Walk On Guilded Splinters”.  

Malcolm “Mac” Rebennak Jr. was born in New Orleans in November 1941. He grew up with music all around him, a musical family in a music musical city. It’s no surprise he fell in love with the local music scene. Mac initially picked up the guitar, because there were so many great piano players in New Orleans that he figured he’d have a better chance getting gigs if he was a guitar player.

He started working young. He was about 12 years old when he started playing gigs, and soon he was playing on sessions in the studio. Working with older musicians was a great learning experience, but he also picked up some pretty bad habits. By the time he was in his teens, he was using heroin.

He did a lot of session work for Cosimo Matasa, the legendary producer. And Mac was writing songs too.

On Christmas Eve 1961, Mac tried to break up a fight. But when a gun went off, Mac almost lost a finger on his left hand. Until it healed, he couldn’t really play guitar, so he switched to playing piano– the instrument he’d eventually become famous for.

Many of the New Orleans musicians Mac had been working with ended up in Los Angeles, playing on sessions with the legendary Wrecking Crew. After a short stint in Angola prison, Mac followed them to LA and started doing a lot of session work himself. He played on tons of records during this period, but frankly, he didn’t like most of the songs he was playing on. He just didn’t care much for pop music at all.

It was around this time that he came up with the character of “Dr. John”. He based his Dr. John Persona on a real-life character named Bayou John Montaigne, who supposedly taught voodoo to Marie Laveau.

So, he created this figure of “Dr. John, The Night Tripper” voodoo doctor, with a whole theatrical stage presentation, mixing voodoo ritual, stage magic, Mardi Gras spectacle, and of course, performed by authentic New Orleans musicians.

He assembled the former New Orleans musicians now living in LA, and they cut an album steeped in the sounds and rhythms of New Orleans, but with its own unique approach, bordering on psychedelic. Some of the songs were versions of old traditional numbers, others were new compositions. Some were based on actual voodoo ceremonial melodies. The album was given the name “Gris Gris”, a kind of a ritual object, a lucky charm or totem, and it was released in January 1968. It still remains one of the most mysterious, spooky records I’ve ever heard.

It was produced by Harold Batiste and performed by Dr. John on vocals, keyboards and percussion; Harold Batiste on bass and clarinet and percussion, Richard “Dr. Ditmus” Washington also on percussion; Bob West on bass, John Boudreaux on drums; Plas Johnson on saxophone; Louis Boulden on flute; Steve Mann on slide guitar and banjo; Dr. McLean on guitar and mandolin, Mo Pedido on congas and Dave Dixon, Jesse Hill, Ronnie Baron, Johnny Jones, Prince, Ella Johnson, Shirley Goodman, Sonny Race Durden and Tammy Lynn on backing vocals.

One quick note before we get started: this song at over seven and a half minutes long, is longer than most of the songs we cover on this show. And much of it is about setting a mood, creating an atmosphere. So there are some long stretches, but we’ll work our way through it. It’ll be worth it, because this is such a great track.

It begins with the bass guitar, some percussion and, quieter in the mix, an acoustic guitar played with a slide. And all of this is primarily in the left channel.

And Dr. John is going to join in with the first verse. You know it’s him right away. Even back then on his very first album, he had one of the most distinctive voices you’ll ever hear.

The song is steeped in New Orleans voodoo culture. Dr. John based it on a song he had heard sung by voodoo practitioners. And so we’ll hear a lot of voodoo terms and vocabulary, along with that Cajun French unfamiliar to many of us outside of Louisiana. Let’s hear the doctor’s vocal track.

In the lyrics, he mentions “Le Grand Zombie”, which is a reference to a powerful serpent spirit. Serpents are believed to hold unspoken knowledge, and voodoo devotees communicate with the spirit world through them. You also hear him refer to “The King of the Zulu”. King of the Zulu is the central figure in the Mardi Gras parade. And as for the song title, “Gilded Splinters”, according to some, gilded splinters are the points of a planet, related to astrology. However, Dr. John himself said that in the original song, they sung of “gilded splendors”, but he changed it to “splinters” because he just liked the sound, and the visual, of gilded splinters.

The chant like vocals of the backing singers are panned to the right channel. The stereo mix of this track is somewhat unusual, with all of the instruments panned either hard left or hard right. The only thing in the center is Dr. John’s lead vocal. So, in the left channel, you’ve got the traditional drum kit, the congas, bass guitar, acoustic guitar, a couple of saxophones. Then in the right channel, you have the backing vocals, snapping fingers and hand claps, and a talking drum. More on that in a bit.

The backing vocals are followed by that melody played on a soprano saxophone and doubled on the bass guitar. The melody reminds me of a snake charmer, like you’d hear in one of those old movies.

Now, I used to think they’re singing “Till I burn up” during that part. But what they’re actually singing is “Tell Alberta”. Dr. John had spent two years in prison when he was young on a drug charge.  Apparently, whether it was the prison he was in or a story he was told about another prison, one of the jail blocks was named “Alberta”. And sometimes the inmates would pass information, send signals between blocks, by calling out and echoing the message from block to block. And you can visualize that just by listening to the performance. Dr. John calls out, “Tell Alberta”. And then the backing singers repeat the message, one by one, and we can hear it as the message travels further down the line.

I like how he stutters as he says he can make you stutter, emphasizing the point.

Next, as they chant the chorus, they preface it with some unfamiliar phrases to those of us outside of Creole culture. The expressions “con boonay”, “kili” and “con con” are actually Creole terms for grilled corn, coffee and molasses. It may seem odd to be singing about food in a song like this, but, as in many cultures, preparing and eating food is part of ritual and celebration.

And another iteration of the “Tell Alberta” call.

Here, he references Coco Robicheaux, a character from New Orleans legend: a child abducted by a werewolf. There was a well-known Louisiana musician who adopted the name Coco Robicheaux, and supposedly he was a friend of Dr. John’s. But most likely, in the context of this song, it’s referring to that old legend, not to a contemporary musician.

He’s inviting you down to his soiree. You, your mammy, your cousin. Bring the whole family.

The backing singers get louder in the right channel as Dr. John vamps over the top. Notice the baritone sax in the left channel, playing low droning notes.

The repetition of the chant and the groove. This is essentially a one-chord song, a drone, and at a somewhat slow pace; the track clocks in at around 90 beats per minute. The combination of the tempo, the drone and the repetition make this song quite hypnotic. The song has been referred to as “voodoo psychedelia” and you can certainly feel that.

Most of the instruments are playing repeated patterns, but the talking drum in the right channel is pretty freely improvising, I think.  The talking drum is a West African instrument, sort of hourglass-shaped, with drum heads on both ends. You change the pitch of the drum by squeezing it in the middle. It’s an instrument that dates back to the 18th century.

There’s an electric guitar in here now, playing a simple accent chord.

We we’re about five minutes deep into this track, and here it takes a bit of a break for a conga solo, which is still primarily in the left channel.

Then the “Tell Alberta” call and response returns. And here, with only the percussion playing, you can really hear the spatial presence of the vocals. Dr. John is front and center as if we’re in the cell block with him. And as he calls out, we can hear the next voices echo his call, each one sounding a little further away as the call is relayed throughout the prison. It’s like a mini audio play.

And the chorus chant returns, as does the snake charmer melody. And then the band chimes back in.

For the last minute or so of the track, it doesn’t fade out in the traditional sense. The band gets quieter, and maybe more distant, as the vocals are first reduced to a whisper, and eventually just wordless vocalizations, whistles, grunts, noises. The song doesn’t end so much as it dissipates like smoke.

Dr. John, The Night Tripper – “I Walk On Guilded Splinters”

The album was not commercially successful when it was released; it didn’t make the charts in the US or the UK, but over time it has earned a reputation as an essential, important album, frequently turning up on lists of the greatest albums of all time. It’s a one-of-a-kind album in terms of the songs on it and the way it sounds. There is simply nothing else like this album.

Dr. John, Mac Rebennack, would go on to have a long career. He recorded a ton of albums. Many of them, I think, are classic. He lived with heroin addiction for decades. It’s a miracle he survived, really. But in 1989, he finally got clean.

He consistently released albums from the late ’60s up through 2014. He had a little bit of a renaissance in 2012 when he recorded an album with Dan Auerbach of The Black Keys called “Locked Down”.

On June 6, 2019, Mac Rebennak passed away from a heart attack. He was 77 years old.

I hope you enjoyed this taste of New Orleans, Creole culture and a little voodoo on the side. New episodes of this podcast are released on the 1st and the 15th of every month, so the next edition will be heading your way soon. Until then, there are almost 200 other episodes of this show waiting for you to discover, so feel free to check out any of those past episodes on our website, lovethatsongpodcast.com, or find them on your favorite podcast app. Communicate with us on Facebook, or send an email to lovethatsongpodcast@gmail.com.

And if you’d like to support the show, the best thing you can do is to tell a friend about it– Share it with your friends and family. The more listeners, the better.

However you choose to celebrate Mardi Gras this year, please do it safely.  And on behalf of everyone on the Pantheon Podcast Network, “Laissez les bons temps rouler”. Now, go get some gumbo and crank up some Dr. John.

Curtis Mayfield – “Hard Times”

"Hard Times" (Curtis Mayfield Copyright 1975 Comad Music Co BMI)

In this episode, we pay homage to the legendary Curtis Mayfield, a pivotal figure often overlooked in discussions about the great artists of the ’60s and ’70s. Join us as we explore his poignant track “Hard Times” from the album There’s No Place Like America Today. We delve into the rich history of his career, from his early days with The Impressions to his groundbreaking solo work that tackled social and political issues head-on.

We uncover the intricate layers of this slow-burning groove, highlighting the subtle interplay of instruments and the emotional depth of Mayfield’s lyrics. As we navigate through the song’s haunting themes of love, fear, and societal struggles, you’ll gain a deeper appreciation for Mayfield’s artistry and the timeless relevance of his message. Tune in for an insightful journey into the life and music of a true musical genius.

“Hard Times” – Curtis Mayfield Copyright 1975 Comad Music Co. BMI

TRANSCRIPT:

People, get ready– The “I’m In Love With That Song” Podcast is coming! My name is Brad Page, thanks for joining me here on the Pantheon Podcast Network. Each episode of this show, I pick one of my favorite songs and we take the time to listen– really listen– to uncover little elements, those special moments that turn a good song into a great one. Musical expertise is not a prerequisite here; you don’t have to know anything about music theory or understand a lot of technical jargon. We’re just going to put our ears to work and discover what’s been right there all along.

On this edition of the podcast, we’re going to be exploring a track by one of the most important figures in music history. When people list the important black artists of the 60’s and 70’s, you often hear musical geniuses like Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Sly Stone, Michael Jackson and Prince… but there’s one name that often gets overlooked: Curtis Mayfield.

Well, on this episode, we’re going to pay tribute to this musical genius by listening to Curtis Mayfield and a song called “Hard Times”.

Curtis Mayfield was born in Chicago in June 1942. When he was around 8 years old, he stumbled across a guitar shoved in the back of a closet and that was it. He’d already been singing in church and noodling around on piano, but man, when he found that guitar, he really fell in love. It set the direction for the rest of his life, really.

When he played piano, he liked to use the black keys, which meant that he was mostly playing in the key of F#. So when he taught himself to play guitar– and he was entirely self-taught– he transferred that to the guitar, and created his own F# tuning on guitar, which gave him a sound unlike anyone else.

He dropped out of school when he was 16 and joined a local group called The Roosters. Eventually they changed their name to The Impressions. Their first hit was “For Your Precious Love” in 1958, featuring the vocals of Jerry Butler, the band leader.

That taste of success was enough to inspire Butler to go solo, so he left and Curtis took over The Impressions. In 1961, with Curtis at the helm, The Impressions had a hit with “Gypsy Woman”. Their next big hit was in 1963 with “It’s All Right”.

Under Mayfield’s direction, they developed their unique harmonies centered around Mayfield’s falsetto vocals, as exemplified with their 1964 hit “I’m So Proud”.

But Curtis had more on his mind beyond love and romance. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but Curtis Mayfield was a black man living in America in the 1960’s, and he wasn’t just a witness to what was going on– he was part of it. He was living it. And he had things to say.

For all that was great about Motown, they stayed decidedly away from politics; and Stax Records, even though they were integrated and in that sense, more progressive than most, they largely avoided the subject at the time. The fact that they were located in Memphis probably meant it was safer if they didn’t.

But Curtis had no such reservations. They released “Keep On Pushing” in 1964, one of the first pop songs to directly address civil rights.

That was followed by “People Get Ready” in 1965. By any measure, one of the most significant singles ever released. It reached number three on the R&B charts, number 14 on the Top 100 chart. Martin Luther King considered it the unofficial anthem of the civil rights movement. It’s been covered dozens of times, by everyone from The Staple Singers to Bob Dylan, from Bob Marley to Rod Stewart and Jeff Beck. It’s a song that still inspires today.

“People Get Ready” was also the first time that Mayfield’s guitar was prominently featured on a track.

Curtis continued to write songs addressing the social and political environment, particularly from the black perspective. His lyrics could be pointed, but the music was always subtle, gentle and encouraging. He might have been angry– God knows there’s plenty to be angry about– but the music was rarely delivered in anger.

In 1968, he launched his own record label with manager Eddie Thomas called Curom Records. Finally, he was able to control his own recording and publishing, something very few artists, black or white, were able to do. In 1968, he released his first solo album, simply titled “Curtis”, in 1970. It is a great record, including at least two classics: “Move On Up” and “Don’t Worry If There’s A Hell Below, We’re All Going To Go”. Listen to the fuzz bass on this track.

Two more albums followed in 1971, and then in 1972, he got the job to create the soundtrack to “Superfly”.

Mayfield’s soundtrack is simply iconic. Along with Isaac Hayes’ “Shaft”, it defined the sound of this era of filmmaking. The thing is, Curtis wasn’t really a fan of the movie, at least not the message. Where the film “Superfly” in some ways glorifies drug dealers, Curtis wanted none of that; he was not interested in promoting that. So, with the “Superfly” soundtrack, you have these songs that are, in essence, commenting on the actions and the characters in the film, with Curtis giving his point of view, which often is in opposition to the images on the screen. It all makes for, I think, one of the most interesting and unique soundtracks ever recorded. Along with the title cut, the album also features a few other classics like “Pusher Man” and “Freddy’s Dead”.

The success of the “Superfly” album, and the album literally outsold the movie, that success ushered in a second career for Mayfield, writing and recording for films, and he would release a handful of other soundtracks, working with Gladys Knight, the Staples Singers and Aretha Franklin.

And he would continue recording solo albums. “Back To Whe World” came out in 1973, “Sweet Exorcist” and “Got To Find A Way” in 1974, and 1975’s “There’s No Place Like America Today”. That’s the album we’re visiting on this episode.

“There’s No Place Like America Today” was Mayfield’s seventh studio album. Curtis was wrestling with his own depression, not to mention the troubling situations in America at the time… I guess some things never change. This is Mayfield’s State of the Union album, and it’s sobering. Death, poverty, sadness all make their way into these songs, but so does love and romance, faith and hope.  Its ‘one of my favorite Curtis Mayfield albums… in fact, maybe it is my favorite.

The song we’re digging into in this episode is “Hard Times”. It’s the second-to-last song on the album.

The album was produced by Curtis, and features Gary Thompson and Phil Upchurch on guitars, Rich Tufo on keyboards, Harold Dessent on woodwinds, Joseph “Lucky” Scott on bass, Quinton Joseph on drums, Henry Gibson on percussion, and Curtis Mayfield on vocals, guitar and keyboards.

“Hard Times”, like all of the songs on the album, was written by Curtis Mayfield. And like most of the tracks on this album, it’s a slow burn. Doesn’t come on strong, but the groove is insistent. The song kicks off with a single hit on the hi-hat and then the band launches into the groove.

Let’s explore this groove a little bit. Let’s start with the bass, drums and percussion. You can hear that the drums are recorded quite dry, not much for reverb or room sound on them. And that makes for a very intimate and maybe even a little claustrophobic sound.

Now let’s hear the guitars. I’m just making a guess here, but I think we’re hearing Curtis and Gary Thompson on rhythm guitars and it’s Phil Upchurch playing some lead lines in the left channel, using a wah-wah pedal to get that classic sound.

Alright, lets go back to the top.

At this point, there’s a subtle shift in the groove, and the guitar solo comes a little more forward. Focus on those tasty licks.

That leads us to the first verse. You’ll hear multiple vocals; all the voices are Curtis overdubbed.

I really like that little instrumental break there. Here comes the second verse, and Curtis is really laying it out here. You can feel his depression and paranoia in these lyrics. “I’m afraid to come outside; although I’m filled with love I’m afraid they’ll hurt my pride, so I play the part I feel they want of me, and I’ll pull the shades so I won’t see them seeing me.”

Nice guitar lick there. There’s more tasty guitar playing coming up. It’s in the left channel, but let’s see if we can bring it to the center and up the volume a bit.

That brings us to the third and final verse. Just a classic Curtis Mayfield vocal on this track. You can really feel the emotion in his voice.

For this chorus, let’s hear what the band is doing underneath the vocals. The interplay between the bass and the drums, it’s great.

Let’s pick it up from there through the chorus.

And the track will slowly fade out. Riding out on the groove.

Curtis Mayfield – “Hard Times”

As I said at the beginning, when people mention the important black artists of the late 60’s and 70’s, it’s usually names like James Brown, Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin, Prince; Curtis Mayfield is often left off the list, but he stands toe-to-toe with any of the important artists of that period.

Curtis would continue to release albums through the 70’s and the 80’s, as well as doing concert tours… and it was at a concert in Brooklyn, New York, on August 13, 1990– an outdoor show at Wingate Field,– when a storm was brewing. And just as Curtis’s name was announced and he headed for the stage, a massive gust of wind hit the lighting trusses. Lights came crashing down, injuring half a dozen people. And Curtis, Curtis was struck in the back of his neck, breaking his third, fourth and fifth vertebrae. Curtis was permanently paralyzed from the neck down. He’d never play guitar again. He was 48 years old.

Being paralyzed made breathing difficult, which made it almost impossible for him to sing. But Curtis didn’t give up. In 1996, six years after the accident, he released one final album titled “New World Order”. Recording it was painstaking and arduous. He discovered that if he laid on his back, gravity would help him to exhale, just enough to be able to sing one line at a time.

And so slowly, a line at a time, he was able to record his vocals for this last album.

Curtis’ health declined, and in December 1999, the day after Christmas, Curtis passed away. He was 57.

Rolling Stone magazine referred to him as “the gentle genius”. That’s as good as any way to describe the great Curtis Mayfield.

I hope you enjoyed this edition of the podcast. As always, we’ll be back in about two weeks with another new episode. All of our previous shows are available on our website, and we’re creeping up on 200 episodes, so there’s plenty of them to be discovered. You can listen on the website, lovethatsongpodcast.com, or find the shows on your favorite podcast app.

You can keep in touch with us on Facebook, just look for the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast and you’ll find us there. Or send an email to lovethatsongpodcast@gmail.com.

Support the show by sharing it with your friends and family. And if you’d like to go one step further, then head over to oldglory.com and buy a t-shirt or some band merch from your favorite artist. Old Glory has tons of great stuff, and if you use our discount code, lovethatsong, you’ll save 15% and you’ll be supporting this show. That’s oldglory.com,  Discount code is lovethatsong– get some cool merch, save some money, and support the show. Thanks.

On behalf of Pantheon Podcasts, where fans belong, I thank everyone for listening. Now it’s time for you to rediscover some of the great Curtis Mayfield records. So go listen, and I’ll meet you back here next time.

Tom Petty – The Life And Music with special guest Gillian Gaar

In this episode, we welcome back author Gillian Garr to discuss her new book, “Tom Petty: The Life and Music“. We’ll take a look at the fascinating career of one of rock’s most beloved figures. From Petty’s early encounter with Elvis Presley to the eventual rise of The Heartbreakers, this episode is packed with anecdotes and insights that shed light on Petty’s enduring legacy.

Gillian shares stories about Petty’s struggles with record labels, his creative partnerships, and the pivotal moments that defined his career. We discuss the making of iconic albums like “Damn The Torpedoes” and “Wildflowers”, as well as the challenges he faced, including battles with addiction and the pressures of fame. With a mix of nostalgia and admiration, this episode is a heartfelt tribute to Tom Petty’s music and the impact he had on fans and fellow musicians alike.

Pick up Gillian’s book here:
https://www.amazon.com/Tom-Petty-Gillian-G-Gaar/dp/0760392617?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.sSMDZ2nyWs0gpB0yuP2v6Mjkn97tu_S03lVOo0xw6HyK7xc_hcyMVZz00r6IZ2gz_Kfg4GFr7Ue45quOg_yQNF9MCNKCrQvdP-zElIVtDFcGyk3owjVKmtHbO2B1wbtnge_CeNcejGJGMmO135gXF4H5Uw0kiPqXmaRrcqgE6xcCmNUyayv7iHqt9UJQEN7p71-p9SK3-X1uxQehhLGnylfjrI-gx3m2brIh_BuG4gw.-2wrdeMXlOF1Yh5Bx-rTUtLGDzzi-SXEhdrzuZR9W9g&dib_tag=se&keywords=tom+petty+the+life+and+music&qid=1779056611&sr=8-1

TRANSCRIPT:

Greetings, all you rebels, refugees and heartbreakers. Thanks for joining me for another episode of the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast, coming to you on the Pantheon Podcast Network. I’m your host, Brad Page.

Tom Petty is a big favorite here on the show– in fact, we first covered him way back on Episode 2 of this podcast. I’m a big fan of Tom, and the Heartbreakers too, as a band. Mike Campbell is one of my favorite guitarists of all time. So, when I heard that author Gillian Gaar has a new book out, celebrating the life and music of Tom Petty, I wanted to get her back on the show to talk about Tom and his remarkable career. You may remember Gillian from her appearance on this podcast, about eight months ago, when she joined me to talk about the 50th anniversary of Queen’s “Night at the Opera” album. It’s a pleasure to have her back this time to talk about the late, great Tom Petty.

Here’s my conversation with Gillian Gaar:

Brad Page: Well, Gillian Gaar, thanks for coming back on the podcast. And you’ve got a brand new book that’s out now. It’s out for the holidays– Hint, hint, folks, go pick it up. Perfect Christmas gift for any Tom Petty fan out there. This is a great package, great new book, “Tom Petty: The Life and Music”. And Gillian’s here to talk with me about the fascinating career of Tom Petty. He’s one of my favorite songwriters. There’s really great stuff in here of the whole band, the Heartbreakers, as well as Tom. I just had a great time reading the book.

Gillian Gaar: Oh, good.

Brad Page: Yeah. So, let’s start talking about Tom Petty. One of the most formative things about him, which I don’t know that I knew this before I read the book, is that Tom had actually seen Elvis Presley at a very young age, and that kind of set the stage for him for his future career in a lot of ways.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, I had no idea he had a close encounter with Elvis either. And I’ve written a lot about Elvis, so that was interesting. And, yeah, it came before Tom was really that interested in rock music as well. I mean, what’s interesting about that encounter is that it wasn’t a concert; he was watching Elvis on a film set. But he was just kind of dazzled by, I suppose you’d say, the accoutrements of show business and what that was like. Elvis had come back from the army and was focusing on making films. And his film “Follow That Dream”, which is about a family of homesteaders, was set in Florida. And one of Tom’s relatives worked as local crew on film shoots. So he was working on this film shooting, so he asked Tom, who’s, you know, like 10, would he want to come and meet Elvis? And he said,  “well, sure”. And so he was, he was brought to the film set, they were filming on location. So then all the Cadillacs pull up with his entourage, the Memphis Mafia guys, and the anticipation’s building, and then Elvis comes and yeah, he was just really impressed by that moment of the girls shrieking and waving their album covers that they want to get signed.

Brad Page: Right.

Gillian Gaar: And fans would break past the barricades and you know, in and try and hug Elvis. So, oh, shop ruined, got to do it again. And Tom was just dazzled by this whole experience. And yeah, he talked a bit to Elvis, got to shake his hand and all that. And when he gets home that night, his friend who lives next door just wants to know all that information, every bit of detail, you know, about what happened. And Tom ended up trading a slingshot to his friend for a box of 45s, which included some Elvis 45s.

Brad Page: And then of course, like so many people of that era, kind of the next big thing was seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. And that was a life-changing experience for him.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, I mean I was watching too… though I didn’t, you know, end up in a rock band later.  But we were all one of those 73 million people watching that night.

Gillian Gaar: It’s almost a universal thing for a whole generation of– and more– of musicians, that launching off spot. And Tom was one of them.

Gillian Gaar: I thought, though, in Tom’s case, you know, there he is watching the Beatles at 13 or so and just think, if you could have told him that in 20-some years he was going to be making a record with George Harrison, think how flabbergasted he would have been.

Brad Page: I know, right?

Gillian Gaar: He wouldn’t have believed you.

Brad Page: It’s incredible, I mean, how many of those 73 million that watched that show got that to that point? It’s really something.

So he forms– he has a couple of bands, but the first one that really kind of comes together and does anything is a band called Mudcrutch. And that’s where Tom meets Benmont Tench and Mike Campbell, who become kind of his left- and right-hands through the rest of his career.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, yeah, Mike Campbell in particular was always brought on with every project, solo as well as the band projects.

Brad Page: And Mudcrutch has some success. They go out to California, they get signed to Shelter Records. But it kind of falls apart, right?

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, it fell apart pretty quickly. They had all the Hollywood dreams, but I mean admittedly the single they put out was not that strong, either. I mean, I think it got some okay reviews in Billboard, but it didn’t take off. And the record label seemed to lose interest in them pretty quickly. Well, they dropped them– except for Tom. They hung onto to Tom because they recognized that he had the talent. He should probably be the main focus.

Brad Page: Right. They could see the potential. And he was actually doing some work as a songwriter; I think you mention in the book that he had a very short period where they were teaming him up with some LA studio musicians, and that really didn’t work for him. He’s a band guy and so he ends up kind of slowly but surely bringing in the members of the Heartbreakers, including those guys that came from Mudcrutch and they form this new band, The Heartbreakers.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, and you think about Mudcrutch, that was just the band named Mudcrutch, it was not Tom Petty and the Mudcrutchers or something. And his subsequent band, he thought of in those terms as well. They weren’t going to name it Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers or Tom Petty and the such and such, but, one, it made sense. He was the one that had the contract with the record company.

Brad Page: Mhm.

Gillian Gaar: So he was kind of bringing them on as sort of his side musicians, except he wanted them to be a band and not just side musicians. So yeah, I think it was also at the label’s instigation that it became Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers.

Brad Page: So Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers officially make their first album, and it comes out to, you know, it got some good reviews but it didn’t really do very much. And this is another thing I always thought was a really fascinating little aspect of the Tom Petty story, is that there’s this one guy, a promotions guy named John Scott, who almost single-handedly breaks the song “Breakdown” as a single. And it just shows you that there’s always these unsung heroes behind the scenes. John Scott really was an important figure in getting the Heartbreakers really going, getting their career going.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, it’s interesting to think about what if he hadn’t been there.

Brad Page: Right.

Gillian Gaar: You know, then maybe we wouldn’t have heard of the Heartbreakers. Because, as you say, the album got some good reviews, but it didn’t zoom up the charts and sell a million copies or anything. So, you know, kind of a lukewarm success, and they might not have progressed further.

Brad Page: John Scott heard something in the song “Breakdown” and started to get it on the radio. And before you know it, it’s a, it’s a minor hit, but it gets them going.

Brad Page: And then their second record, “You’re Gonna Get It”, which is, I think, a much stronger record than the first one, has some great tracks on it. “Listen to Her Heart”’s one of my favorites.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, yeah. That’s the one with the cocaine line in it, isn’t it?  Right, yeah, that. got him in a bit of trouble because he referenced cocaine, even though it wasn’t really a positive reference. It’s more of a bribe than anything.

Brad Page: It sort of sets a precedent for Tom, that he would not change it. He was not going to budge on that. And that remained an element of his personality and his career through the rest of his life.

Gillian Gaar: That’s true, that’s true. Very much so.

Gillian Gaar: I remember he said they wanted him to change to champagne, and his argument was, you know, you can get cheap champagne in the store. That’s not much of a special thing to offer someone. Well, logically, that makes sense.

Brad Page: And then as they go into their third album,  and it’s a convoluted story, but Shelter Records was distributed by ABC, or a subsidiary of ABC Records, and ABC Records gets purchased by MCA at the time, one of the large record conglomerates. And Tom doesn’t like the fact that his contract is essentially, he’s sort of owned by people that he never signed a deal with.

Gillian Gaar: Right, right.

Brad Page: And so he’s fighting against this contract, and eventually to get out of it, he declares bankruptcy.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, that was a pretty clever move.

Brad Page: On his part it was, but incredibly risky, too. And you know, in the meantime, he’s not getting paid, and the band’s not getting paid. And you know, they’re trying to get this third record off the ground.

Your first two records could be so-so, but by the time you get to the third record, you really, it was kind of a make-or-break kind of thing, and you got to start having legitimate hits if your career is going to continue. And so he’s in this very precarious place, where the first two records, they did okay, but nobody was beating down the doors to release Tom Petty records. And now he’s in a contractual dispute with his record label. Usually you almost always lose when you’re an artist in that perspective. Somehow, he’s obstinate and persistent enough that he pulls it out.

And so, amongst all of this precarious situation, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers end up releasing their third album, “Damn The Torpedoes”, which still to this day is my favorite Tom Petty record. I think this is a fantastic record. It’s as close to a perfect record as Tom Petty ever got. I think it’s so great.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, that’s a record, you just, you remembered seeing it everywhere. Not just hearing it everywhere, but yeah, I remember Tower Records and they would have the, those huge blow ups of the album covers, and that was there. I mean, that was probably the first Tom Petty record I really noticed. Because of that, because of seeing that everywhere.

Brad Page: Yeah, it was, it was exactly what he needed. It was a big hit record. It had a number of singles on it.

Just so many great songs on this record. I’m a huge fan. And that’s 1979, Tom Petty and “Damn The Torpedoes”.

That’s followed up by a record called “Hard Promises”. And we’re smack-dab into another controversy, because the record label, now having had a big success with “Damn The Torpedoes”, decides that they want to release this new album at a brand-new price point of $9.98. And Tom will not have it.

The average record price at the time was $8.98. And so he goes into a whole big fight with the record company about not releasing this record at a dollar more. It’s gotta be $8.98, to the point where he was almost gonna name the album “$8.98”.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. They called that “superstar pricing”. That was the surge pricing of its day.

Brad Page: Yes. Yeah. And it’s fascinating that, you know, he went from struggling with those first two records, had one big record, and suddenly now he’s a superstar, right? And they think they can charge a dollar more per record, which, you know, in those days, it was a big deal. $9.98 was a lot of money for a record back then.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah.

Brad Page: Of course, now we pay literally four times that for vinyl these days. But, yeah. And a number of great songs on the “Hard Promises” record. “The Waiting” is probably my favorite track from that one.

Brad Page: And then Tom seems to be everywhere, because he has this huge hit with Stevie Nick, “Stop Dragging My Heart Around”. And he just seemed to be, like, on the radio all the time. Between his solo career and this song with Stevie, it was, you could almost guarantee: turn on the radio and there’ll be something by Tom Petty on.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. It did seem like that kind of a third little golden era for him. I think it kind of harmed radio play in some instances, though, you know. Well, we got the Stevie Nicks song on. Why Do we need to play the Heartbreakers kind of thing.

Brad Page: Yeah. And I think “Hard Promises” did have a dip in sales compared to “Damn The Torpedoes”. And you could chalk some of that up to a little bit of over-saturation, maybe? And the fact that he’s almost competing with himself by having this song out with Stevie, because that was technically a Stevie Nicks song.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Yeah. It wasn’t on their on his album.

Brad Page: Correct, yeah. 1982, they released their fifth album, “Long After Dark”, which features another huge Tom Pety hit, “You Got Lucky”. That’s such a great song.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah.

Brad Page: I mean, he’s just racking up the hits at this point. And this is kind of a decisive moment for the Heartbreakers, because this is the last album for a while that they record with bass player Ron Blair. He was one of the original members, and he kind of gets fed up with the whole thing, and he leaves the band. So The Heartbreakers suffer their first casualty at this point, and they bring in a guy named Howie Epstein to play bass for them.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, it’s interesting that sometimes when they get their big break and they’re famous now, that it doesn’t always sit well with everyone. You think it would. You think, “Oh, yes, this is what we’ve been striving for”. And the musician themselves probably thought that, too. But then the constant touring… there are different kinds of pressures when you’re a success than when you’re trying to be a success. But then he missed the band and came back later. Seems like he was able to do that.

Brad Page: Right? Well, we’ll get to that, too. But, Mike Campbell talks about this in his book, that at some point early on, the management or whatever came to them and basically said in, you know, in no uncertain terms, that Tom is the star and you guys are hired hands, and it’s not an equal split. So, “We love you guys, you’re a great band. But make no mistake, Tom is where the money is.” And the guys in the band kind of had to live with that. And Mike Campbell seems to have rolled with those punches, but I think that’s when things started chafing with Stan Lynch, who was the drummer.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Yeah. I think also, as The Heartbreaker’s career progresses, they’re working with Tom, but then there are longer breaks between the albums, and those other players like Mike Campbell, they go off and they work with other performers, too. So they’re developing kind of their own identity and their own career as well. In addition, you know, Tom’s the focus, The Heartbreakers are the focus. But then they start adding other things in there themselves, and I think that helped. But Mike, he seems to have been the savviest in learning how to negotiate that. I think he’s told this, yeah, you’re the side man, but he thinks, “Okay, how can I use this to my best advantage? How do I make this really work for me?” I think that’s the attitude he took.

Brad Page: Right.

Gillian Gaar: And I think that explains a lot to how Tom always turned to him when he was doing new projects. Sometimes, in starting an album, Mike would be the only person he’d bring in at first.

Brad Page: Right, right.

In 1985, they make this– to me, it’s sort of the odd album in Tom’s whole career– the “Southern Accents” record. Not my personal favorite record, but it’s a really interesting record, just because it’s a real departure, I think.

Gillian Gaar: Well, that’s one where he starts working with Dave Stewart.

Brad Page: Yes.

Gillian Gaar: So, see, it starts off as more of a Southern accent, and then Dave Stewart gets in there, so it’s kind of less of an accent. And there are some songs that were going to be on the album that were dropped, and they appear as B sides and, oh, they’ve come out on probably some of the many box sets they’ve done. And really, those songs would have fit better with the whole “Southern Accents” theme.

Brad Page: Yeah, it’s kind of a schizophrenic record because, like you said, he has this idea of kind of revisiting his– because, you know, he grew up in Florida, and he kind of wants to revisit his Southern roots. And so he starts heading down that vein and they cut a bunch of tracks, and then he starts to work with Dave Stewart from the Eurythmics, who is not Southern at all, and takes the rest of the record in a whole different direction. And you get things like, you know, “Don’t Come Around Here No More”, which was a big hit, but that sounds nothing like any connection to Southern rock or whatever. It’s a strange record.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. I mean, I think some of his bandmates were frustrated with that, too, and not that keen on working with Dave Stewart at first, though obviously, they got over that and produced a, you know, ended up turning out a good album.

Brad Page: It was a really successful record, but still, you know, when I look back at his records, this one always seems to me to be the odd one out. But people do love that record.

We start to see him get involved in, well, he does Live Aid, but he also gets involved in Farm Aid, the initial launch of Farm Aid. He and The Heartbreakers, they tour as Bob Dylan’s backup band, essentially, which was pretty fascinating.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Oh, they really liked doing that. I mean, again, that generational thing. Bob had a huge influence on people, but yeah, through their work on Live Aid. You know, I love how it came together.

Brad Page: Yeah, you tell the story in the book how they didn’t really even know what they were getting into. Their manager, it seems like essentially just booked them for Live Aid and they said, “Okay”. And they were halfway across the country or whatever. And it was, “All right, you guys, you got to get up and get on this plane and fly to Pennsylvania” or whatever. “We’ll do this gig”. And then they show up and it’s Live Aid, and they’re like, wow!

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, there’s this massive audience and oh, by the way, you’ve got like a worldwide audience of so many millions.

Brad Page: Right. Not only a stadium packed full, but you’re being literally broadcast around the world. So, you know, “better be good”

Gillian Gaar: “ Relax. Have a good time.” “Oh, okay.”

Brad Page: And so, yeah, working with Dylan, of course, that sets us up for some things that come down the road. But almost immediate impact from that is they work on their next record, which is “Let Me Up, I’ve Had Enough”, comes out in 1987 and that features at least one co-write with Bob Dylan.

Brad Page: So there was a lasting relationship established between Tom and Dylan. I think “Let Me Up, I’ve Had Enough” is an underappreciated Heartbreakers record. It’s one of my favorites. I think this record deserves a little bit more love than it typically gets.

Gillian Gaar: Well, it’s got a great title for one thing. I’ve always liked that aspect about it.

Brad Page: Right.

Gillian Gaar: But then, you know, that’s kind of the problem when you put out a lot of albums.

Brad Page: There’s an ebb and flow of everyone’s career, right? There was certainly more to come from Tom Petty, but the same year, 1987, just a really frightening experience: his house burns down. Luckily, his instruments are safe. But you know, he and his, not just him, but I mean, he’s married with two daughters. I think he had both of his daughters at this point, right?

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, but one of them was at a friend’s home. So it was only one daughter that had to go through that. But, you know, they lost all their stuff, and think how traumatizing that would be.

Brad Page: All your photo albums, I mean all of that kind of stuff goes up in flames, literally. And then it turns out to be a case of arson, which is even more frightening. It wasn’t accidental, somebody set his house on fire.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. And it’s still unsolved to this day, so we don’t know who it was or why they did it. So, you know, he had to live with that for the rest of his life.

Brad Page: Yes. And he’s a public figure, and you can only imagine, like, the thoughts that go through your head now, you know, that it becomes very real, the danger of being a public figure. And now you’re out on the road, literally in front of the thousands of people every night, and what could happen. Scary.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Page: Talk about the downsides of fame that you don’t think about when you’re coming up and you’re just, you’re dying to be a rock star, and then you get there and you realize there’s a whole dark underside of it. And Tom certainly lived through some of that.

A year later– the Traveling Wilburys, which is the supergroup of all supergroups, right?

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Oh, I think so.

Brad Page: And it all starts because George Harrison basically needs a B-side, which is the most throwaway beginning to one of the most incredible supergroups of all time! And George Harrison writes this song, “Handle With Care”, that is tailor-made for, it ust shows what a great songwriter George Harrison was. Because there’s a moment in that song for each of those vocalists to kind of do what they do best. Of course, the record company heard it and said, “oh, this is way too good for a B-side!”

And Tom follows that up with the “Full Moon Fever” album in 1989, his first solo album, produced by Jeff Lynne, so that relationship continues out of the Traveling Wilburys. It’s a hugely successful record. Big hits off this record. And of course, Mike Campbell is there through the whole thing. Still his right hand man. Indispensable, I think.

Gillian Gaar: Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. That was such a partnership. I think about how Mike just must still miss him so much.

Brad Page: I know. What a team. Just great songwriters. And Mike Campbell is one of my all-time favorite guitar players, because he always plays the right thing– the exact right thing that’s necessary, even if it’s only one note. He never overplays. He always finds something interesting to play. Just a great, great player and a great songwriter. And yeah, one of my favorite musicians, Mike Campbell.

Gillian Gaar: But that’s the one that the record company didn’t like initially, isn’t it?

Brad Page: Which surprised me because it was such a huge record!

Brad Page: “We don’t hear any hits.”

Gillian Gaar: Right. And literally half the record was hits! You know sometimes record companies, they don’t know anything more than we do. Nobody really knows what makes a hit.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. If they did know, then every record put out there would be a hit, right?

Brad Page: Yeah. Jeff Lynne also produces the next Heartbreakers record, which is “Into the Great Wide Open” in 1991.

Brad Page: And now, when did Stan lynch, the drummer, leave the band?

Gillian Gaar: It was when they were recording the tracks for the “Greatest Hits” album. That was the last session he did with them. He just, he always comes across as a kind of prickly character. He was the one who seemed the most resentful about, you know, this whole sideman thing and that Tom would go off and work on his solo things and “Who’s this Dave Stewart guy”, etc. And yeah, he was unhappy during the recording of the new songs for “Greatest Hits” and that was just kind of it for him. He didn’t, he seemed to feel that he wasn’t being appreciated enough, so he just left.

Brad Page: Interestingly, Stan was replaced by a drummer named Steve Ferrone, who was a journeyman player, but I grew to love him from his work in the Average White Band, which is a band that I am really fond of. I love the Average White Band and he’s a really funky drummer, very different kind of drummer than Stan, but seemed to fit right in with the Heartbreakers and was a mainstay of the band, right up until the end. Steve Ferrone.

And Tom, in 1994, releases his second solo album, “Wildflowers”, which has gone on to be a big fan favorite. A real classic record. They released that deluxe box set version of it.

Gillian Gaar: The band members that worked on that album consider it a highlight of Tom’s career, he did himself. And, it was natural it would get this sort of deluxe box treatment. I don’t know if any other album in his catalog has received that, you know, because they put out a lot of extra stuff, here have been other box sets…

Brad Page: Yeah, it was like a 5 LP set, I believe.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, just on the one album.

Brad Page: It does have a more intimate feel than you get from a typical Heartbreakers record.

Brad Page: 1996. This is another kind of oddball record in their catalog, a soundtrack album called “She’s The One”, which the movie didn’t really do anything, and I think the record really didn’t do too much.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, Tom seemed to have pretty mixed feelings about it, ultimately. One thing that definitely harmed the record’s chances was that it’s all completed, but then they decide to delay the release of the movie, but for some reason they don’t delay the release of the soundtrack. So they put the soundtrack out months before the movie, which makes no sense to me. Yeah, you know, they put it in the soundtrack section, which was not where a Tom Petty fan is necessarily going to look for the latest Tom Petty album.

Brad Page: Yeah, exactly.

Gillian Gaar: And he himself seemed to feel conflicted about even working on the project. Like, he agreed and then I think he regretted it. First it said it was going to have other musicians doing their own tracks, but then he would have to reach out to them, and he didn’t like doing that. So then he would write everything, and that just became a hassle, too. So, not one of his most best-realized projects, though they did revamp it somewhat. I think it was recorded around “Wildflowers”, but he didn’t really want to mix it up too much. So some of those songs ended up on the “Wildflowers” reissue. And they reworked the soundtrack completely and I think even gave it a new title.

Brad Page: Uh, and this is also, it gets into a pretty uncomfortable time for him that he really didn’t like talking about very much… but he had a serious drug addiction at that time.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Not just drugs, but heroin. And I don’t think I knew this until researching and reading about him for this. Well, of course, he kept it under wraps, and he wasn’t collapsing in public or anything like that. But, you know, even his friends were surprised.

Brad Page: Right.

Gillian Gaar: To hear that. “Heroin? You’re using heroin?” I mean, if he’d, say, become a drunk or something…

Brad Page: Like heroin, that can kill you pretty quickly. Luckily, he pulled himself together, but you get the feeling it was a really, really rough time for him. Of course, he was going through a divorce at that time, too, right.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Yeah, and not an entirely amicable divorce.  So you have that weighing on you as well. I remember this friend of mine in an obituary she was writing for Lane Staley, she said, “No one starts using heroin thinking they’re going to be an addict.”

Brad Page: Right.

Gillian Gaar: And, you know, they generally end up that way. “Oh, I can handle this”. Well, then six months later, “Oh, gee, I guess I was wrong about that.” And I could see also for someone in his case, or his situation rather, that it would be easy to fall into because he’s not going to have the problems of someone that doesn’t have the money. He does. You know, he doesn’t have to go out and break into people’s homes to steal their stereos and computers to get money for his habit, right? He could take care of that easily. And so I think that, you know, that’s another barrier removed.

Brad Page: Yeah. It becomes too easy.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. And, well, if you know, the music industry, it’s kind of full of leeches, too. There’s more than enough people that are happy to provide you with whatever you might think you want.

Brad Page: Sure.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. I was surprised to learn about that. But, you know, good on him for getting out of it. Not everyone does.

Brad Page: And I’m sure it was… again, he didn’t really like talking about it, because I don’t think he wanted to glamorize it. He was, I think, ashamed.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, you definitely get that sense. A lot of shame. But I think his story with it is a cautionary tale.

Brad Page: Yes.

Gillian Gaar: I don’t see how anyone could read what he went through and think that sounded at all glamorous, because it doesn’t. You know, he was just isolated in this new home, in a kind of rural setting, and not doing anything except taking drugs and nodding off. Oh, yeah, that sounds like fun, doesn’t it? So, yeah, I definitely think it’s more of a cautionary tale and not glamorous at all.

Brad Page: I do respect the fact that he wasn’t trying to cash in on it in any way. I think it would have been probably beneficial for some people for him to maybe have talked a little bit more openly about it, but at the same time, he didn’t make a spectacle of himself about it and hang his dirty laundry out for everyone to see. But, you know, these are such personal things you can’t fault anyone for however they feel like they have to deal with it. The reality is, thank God, he did deal with it, and by 1999, he was pretty much cleaned up.

The Heartbreakers release a new album called “Echo” in 1999. Produced by Rick Rubin, right?

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Page: That seems to have been a very difficult record to make. I think they had, again, working with an outside producer, there’s pluses and minuses to that. I think towards the end, Tom wasn’t super happy with Rick Rubin. I guess he left at the end to go work on a Red Hot Chili Peppers record, and kind of left Tom drifting in the wind there to finish up the record. But I think this probably started when he was, either still had his drug issues or he was working hard to get out of it, but that all was part of it, right? And made for kind of a difficult recording of that record.

And it’s the last record they make with bass player Howie Epstein, because Howie also had a serious drug problem, and they ended up having to let him go.

Gillian Gaar: And then he died not long after that.

Brad Page: Right, right. So, I mean, on one hand you have Tom, who’s able to make it through, and his fellow bandmate, who’s not so lucky.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah.

Brad Page: And it could have gone either way, really.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. That must have been quite a sobering moment for him. You know, “there but for the grace of God go I” type of thing.

Brad Page: Yeah. We do have some great songs on that “Echo” record, though. I’m a big fan of the song “Swingin’”.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Page: Ron Blair, the original bass player, he comes back. You know, it’s getting the old gang back together again. He could have probably had any bass player he wanted, but he brings in Ron Blair.

Gillian Gaar: Well, you mentioned earlier about how Tom liked working with these musicians regularly, even on solo projects, because it was a comfort level type of thing. And I think that’s one reason that Ron was able to be integrated back into the band so readily. Because, yeah, they had to get a new bass player and you could see that’s always a bit of a hassle. And so when they knew he was interested, I mean, it must have seemed perfect because here’s a guy who worked with them and up to a certain point, you know, was familiar with everything the Heartbreakers had done. Hadn’t played on the recent stuff, but he was a guy who I think they saw, he can get back in the groove pretty quickly.

Brad Page: Talk about “The Last DJ” album, which comes out in 2002. That’s the record that Ron Blair returns for. And that’s kind of a concept album, which is another interesting turn for Tom. But he was just so frustrated with the state of commercial radio that he just comes up with this whole concept record, basically lambasting the radio biz.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, it’s like this attack on consumerism that I enjoy quite a lot.

Brad Page: Yeah, I like that record a lot. And of course, you know, there were radio stations that refused to play it, and real petty stuff– no pun intended– real petty behavior. But I think it’s a strong record and, I mean, he makes his case pretty well.

Brad Page: 2006, Tom records his third and final solo album, a record called “Highway Companion”. And to me, this is the really forgotten or overlooked record in his career. It wasn’t as popular as the other records. It’s probably one of the least selling– I’m guessing, but I think it’s probably one of the lowest-selling records of the career.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, you know, I’m looking, certainly among the solo albums; the other two solo albums went platinum, but “Highway Companion” just went gold, so yeah, that means lower sales.

Brad Page: Yeah, I’m not sure why that is. I think it’s a perfectly fine record. There’s quite a bit of stuff on that that I like. Maybe the solo thing just kind of ran its course, I don’t know. But it always seems to be the record that people forget about.

Brad Page: 2007. A real left turn: He reassembles Mudcrutch. And they put out an album. And he plays bass, because that was his original role in the band; he was the bass player, not the guitar player. And you just get the feeling that he just, on a whim, just said, you know what, I want to get the old guys, the really old guys, back together and just have some fun.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, that really came out of left field.

Brad Page: Yeah.

Gillian Gaar: If you were trying to predict what Tom Petty was going to do next in his career, bringing back Mudcrutch to not only play some shows, but release an album…

Brad Page: They ended up releasing two albums, actually. Yeah.

Gillian Gaar: Two! Well, again, that’s just his love of music there. It is kind of like a Wilburys type of thing.

Brad Page: That’s a level of fame– where you can go back to your high school band, get them back together and actually get records put out. Not everyone can do that.

Gillian Gaar: Yes.

Brad Page: Also in 2007, we finally get an officially released documentary, the Running Down a Dream documentary, which is like three hours long.

Brad Page: Yeah.

Brad Page: Well worth watching. One of my favorite rock docs.

Gillian Gaar: And you know, Peter Bogdanovich, too, a noted film director, not known for putting out musical films. Kind of unusual choice.

Brad Page: I got the feeling from reading your book that he didn’t even really know much about Tom Petty.

Gillian Gaar: No, that’s also another interesting aspect about that. I mean, he came from a very different world, the film world. Best known for his work in the 70s, I think, with the  Last Picture Show, and Paper Moon and what’s Up Doc. Yeah, so, that just shows it’s an interesting choice. I think at first he was even a little surprised, like, “Why do you want me?” But then he got to know Tom and liked him quite a bit.

Brad Page: Yeah, yeah. He comes out of it being a Tom Petty fan, but he didn’t go into it that way. But I think that lends a certain, um, maybe an objectivity to that documentary? And a curiosity, kind of a mix of both of those things, right? That he’s not smitten, like a fan film.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah.

Brad Page: But he’s also, there’s a curiosity about it that if you knew everything there was to know about Tom Petty, a die-hard fan, you might not ask some of those questions.

In 2010, The Heartbreakers released the “Mojo” album, which is one of my favorite records of their later period. Post 1990’s records, that’s my favorite. There’s some really hard rocking tracks on that record; there’s one track where I think they give Led Zeppelin a run for their money.

Gillian Gaar: That’s one thing about the whole breadth of his music. Just the sort of range in styles. I mean, they were always a rock band, but they really did seem to have the most fun when they were rocking out like that.

Brad Page: Yeah.

Gillian Gaar: And they probably didn’t do it often enough.

Brad Page: And that was followed in 2014 by “Hypnotic Eye”, which would turn out to be the last Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers album.

Gillian Gaar: And that was his first number one album, which is, you know, kind of surprising.

Brad Page: Yeah.

Gillian Gaar I guess his only number one album certainly during his lifetime.

Brad Page: Which is an odd fact for someone that successful, right? You would have thought they would have had number one albums. He’s had, of course, big hits, but the albums always fell a little short of hitting number one, until “Hypnotic Eye” all the way in 2014.

Gillian Gaar: Like “Mojo” and “Damn The Torpedoes”, they both reached number two, but yeah, not quite the peak.

Brad Page: Yep. I remember “Hypnotic Eye” getting a lot of really great reviews. So right up until the end, critics loved him; obviously, fans loved him, because it hit number one. But if you gotta go, going out on a high point like that, it says something.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, yeah.

Brad Page: They performed their last show on September 25, 2017.  During that tour, Tom had had an injury.

Brad Page: At least the account I had read was that he fell and he had a hairline fracture and he thought he could just deal with it later. But over time, you know, it became more of a full-on break.

Brad Page: Yeah, because he’s on stage, he’s on the road and you know, he’s a trooper. He doesn’t want to cancel the shows, he wants to go out and play and do his thing, do what he does best. And so he stupidly, really– but we’re all prone to these kind of things– he decides just to grin and bear it. And he’s going on stage every night, which is a physical thing, you know, you’re on stage, you’re stomping around, you can’t help but rock out, right?

Gillian Gaar: Yeah.

Brad Page: He’s putting more and more pressure on that hip. He’s not a young man anymore. And it keeps getting worse and worse. And so he starts self-medicating, always a dangerous thing to do when you’re, you have a history of addiction, because again, like you were saying, no one goes into taking heroin thinking that they want to be an addict. I’m sure he’s going into this thinking, “I’m just trying to take care of this pain. I can handle it. Hell, I kicked heroin, I can do it.”

Gillian Gaar: Yeah, yeah.

Brad Page: And ends up just a couple of weeks after the Tour’s over, on October 2, 2017, he just takes the wrong mix of medications… and he’s gone.

Gillian Gaar: When they released the toxicology report, he was taking prescription fentanyl, but he was also taking non-prescription fentanyl. And you were saying self-medication is a dangerous thing, and I mean, it’s kind of doubly dangerous if you’re taking prescribed drugs too.

Brad Page: Right?

Gillian Gaar: You’re taking prescribed drugs, you’re adding things on top of that. And if your doctor doesn’t know that you’re doing that, that can set up a lot of dangerous interactions. So I mean, clearly he was doing that to deal with the pain. When you’re taking all these different kind of substances, then, yeah, it’s like a roll of the dice every time you do that. It’s a gamble, it’s a roll of the dice. And he unfortunately lost that day.

Brad Page: Yeah.

Gillian Gaar: I gotta say, I gotta say the one thing that’s kind of doubly frustrating is that the issue was not that serious. And of course, in retrospect, we say, “Well, he should have canceled the tour. The fans would certainly have come to see him after recovery.” But you know, he needed hip surgery. And, yes, there’s a risk with every surgery, but it’s very common and the risk is relatively low. So, it was just a relatively simple thing to take care of. So that’s, I must admit, as I’m writing that part, I’m thinking, why didn’t you just have the hip surgery?

Brad Page: I know you just think, “Oh, Tom, why were you so stupid?” But you get the feeling he was, obviously, he was a stubborn guy, for better or worse. It served him well in his career. Until it didn’t.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. I mean, it was sad to read things from his bandmates on that last tour who would kind of help him get on stage and could see that he was in a lot of pain.

Brad Page: Yeah.

Gillian Gaar: Uh, and saying, “Are you going to be okay?” And he’d say, “Just get me on that stage.”

Brad Page: Yeah. And it’s the “show must go on” mentality that so many artists have. And it’s an admirable thing, but all things being said, I think we would all rather still have Tom Petty today.

Gillian Gaar: Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Page: But, yeah, And I remember hearing the news and what a shock it was.

Gillian Gaar: Well, yeah, that was another thing that just seemed to come out of nowhere.

Brad Page: Yeah.

Gillian Gaar: Because, you know, there was no serious illness. There wasn’t any obvious drug problem. And he just finished this successful tour that had gotten the usual strong reviews. And then I think it was just about a week, two weeks later, “Oh, he died”.

Brad Page: Yeah.

Gillian Gaar: “What? Something’s wrong with this picture.”

Brad Page: Yeah,  it’s one of the… you just don’t, you don’t believe it. It’s so hard to fathom. Such a shame. A huge loss for the music business.

It’s an incredible catalog of music. I’m a huge fan of so much of it. I really enjoyed the book, Gillian, you did a great job of putting this story, just telling this story. It’s just a fun read. And the photos are great, the layout of the book is great, the package is great. They did another great job with the slipcover and everything on this book. It’s beautiful.

Like I said at the beginning, if you’re a Tom Petty fan, or if someone in your life is a Tom Petty fan, and you’re looking for a Christmas gift, look no further. This book is great. It’s an excellent gift. It’s going right up on my shelf with my collection of books. I’m happy to have it.

Gillian, thanks so much for joining me again on another episode of the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast. Always a pleasure to have you on.

Gillian Gaar: Well, it’s fun to be here.

Brad Page: Well, thanks again, Gillian. I appreciate it. Always a pleasure. Have a great holiday.

Gillian Gaar: You too. And everyone listening!

Brad Page: And that’s a wrap on this episode of the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast. Thanks so much for joining us. Just a few notes before I sign off:

#1: Don’t forget to subscribe or follow the show so that you never miss an episode. And please share the show with your family and friends.

#2: Share your thoughts and your opinions on our Facebook page. Just look for the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast, you’ll find us there. Or you can send an email to lovethatsongpodcast@gmail.com

#3: If you’d like to support the show, head on over to oldglory.com and buy a T-shirt or some merch from your favorite bands. They have tons of stuff in stock, including some Tom Petty stuff. And you can use our discount code lovethatsong to get 15% off. That’s oldglory.com with the discount code lovethatsong .

And finally, #4, pick up a copy of Gillian’s book. It’s called “Tom Petty: the Life and Music”, and it can be found on Amazon or fine bookstores anywhere. Go get it. You won’t regret it.

Thanks for listening. Hope to see you again on the next episode.

RESOURCES:

Gillian Garr
https://www.quarto.com/authors/Gillian-G.-Gaar/

Tom Petty
https://www.tompetty.com

Traveling Wilburys
https://www.travelingwilburys.com

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Petty_and_the_Heartbreakers_(album)

You’re Gonna Get It! (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_Gonna_Get_It!

Damn the Torpedoes (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_the_Torpedoes_(album)

Hard Promises (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Promises

Long After Dark (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_After_Dark

Southern Accents (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Accents

Let Me Up (I’ve Had Enough) (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_Me_Up_(I%27ve_Had_Enough)

Into The Great Wide Open (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Great_Wide_Open

Greatest Hits (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatest_Hits_(Tom_Petty_album)

Wildflowers (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildflowers_(Tom_Petty_album)

She’s The One (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songs_and_Music_from_%22She%27s_the_One%22

Echo (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_(Tom_Petty_and_the_Heartbreakers_album)

The Last DJ (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_DJ

Highway Companion (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Companion

Mudcrutch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudcrutch

Mojo (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojo_(Tom_Petty_and_the_Heartbreakers_album)

Hypnotic Eye (album)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnotic_Eye

with Stevie Nicks: Stop Draggin’ My Heart Around
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Draggin%27_My_Heart_Around

Robyn Hitchcock & The Egyptians – “My Wife And My Dead Wife”

Robyn Hitchcock copyright 1984 August 23rd Music/Bug Music

Join us for our annual Halloween Spooktacular episode as we take a haunting journey through the whimsical world of Robyn Hitchcock, focusing on his classic “My Wife and My Dead Wife.” With a blend of the mundane and the macabre, we explore how Hitchcock weaves a tale of domesticity intertwined with the supernatural. From the catchy chorus to the clever lyrics, we dissect the song’s unique storytelling and how it captures the listener’s imagination. We’ll also dive into Hitchcock’s musical roots, his time with The Soft Boys, and the quirky charm of his solo work. Whether you’re a long-time fan or new to Hitchcock’s artistry, this episode delivers a mix of chills and thrills!

“My Wife And My Dead Wife ” (Robyn Hitchcock copyright 1984 August 23rd Music/Bug Music)

TRANSCRIPT:

Welcome, all you ghouls, goblins and goofballs, to our annual Halloween Spooktacular episode. I am Brad Page, your gross host with the most ghosts, here on the Pantheon Podcast network, with the annual “I’m In Love With That Song” Halloween episode. I’ll pick a song with a particularly spooky vibe and we’ll have some fun taking a closer look at it. This time we’re revisiting one of my favorite songwriters, the great Robyn Hitchcock, and one of his early classics, a song called “My Wife and My Dead Wife”.

Robyn Hitchcock was born in Paddington, part of Westminster, England, in March of 1953. He went to Westminster College, where he discovered the music that would change his life, in particular the music of Bob Dylan. He studied art in London and then moved to Cambridge, where he joined his first bands, eventually landing in The Soft Boys in 1976. The Soft Boys were a seminal British 70’s band. There was really no one else quite like them. Along with Hitchcock on guitar and vocals, The Soft Boys included Andy Metcalfe on bass– He would continue to work with Hitchcock and he played with Squeeze for about nine years– Morris Windsor was on drums, and another guitarist, a gentleman named Kimberly Rew, who would later go on to found Katrina and the Waves and wrote their massive hit “Walking on Sunshine”. Here’s a track from the first Soft Boys album, a song called “Leppo and The Jooves”.

The Soft Boys released two albums and then split in 1981. Robyn went solo, releasing some solo albums, and then formed the band Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians, releasing their first album, “Fegmania” in 1985– a Neo-psychedelic, surrealist classic record.

One of the tracks on the “Fegmania” album is “My Wife and My Dead Wife”. It was written by Robyn Hitchcock, and features Andy Metcalfe on bass and keyboards and Morris Windsor on drums, they’re both former members of The Soft Boys; and of course Robyn Hitchcock on guitar and vocals. The album was produced by Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians. The song begins with Robyn’s vocal.

I love the way he lays out the story here; Making coffee for his wife. And then the story takes a twist, and then he asks the question that should be in the listener’s mind.

Makes you curious as to what’s going on here, right? Let’s hear the rest of the first verse.

I think it’s a nice touch that he uses his own name there– his dead wife addresses him as “Robyn”. And the fact that this is just a mundane, everyday disagreement about whether she likes sugar in her coffee. It’s this juxtaposition of the ordinary with the bizarre, the fact that he’s having this conversation with a ghost or spirit. Robyn does this kind of thing so well. Here comes the first chorus.

In the background of the chorus, you’ve got this spooky keyboard part, sounds like a Theremin. It’s that classic 1950s horror movie ghostly effect. And then the chorus wraps up with this nice little tag at the end.

I like that xylophone bit there. Let’s move on to the second verse, but first let’s just listen to the instrumental backing, particularly to Andy Metcalfe’s bass part. He is the secret weapon of the Egyptians. So many great bass parts on these records.

The transition between the second verse and the chorus is different this time around. It’s more of a dramatic build up. Let’s hear that again, this time with the vocals.

That brings us to the next chorus. Let’s bring up Robyn’s vocal and listen to that.

Next up is a short bridge, and notice the background vocals here. Almost a pseudo-Beach Boys kind of thing.

There’s also a nice little instrumental break right in the middle there that’s reminiscent of something The Who might have done.

And that brings us to the third final verse. Notice the background vocals here, too.

Here, they extend the last line of the verse to build into the final choruses. You’ll notice that each verse is a little different; little changes each time so that there’s always something fresh. It’s not totally predictable. It just makes it a little more interesting. These are all great songwriting tricks to keep pleasantly surprising the ear of the listener. There’s also some fun with the backing vocals here, too.

And some more quirky background vocals are added here.

Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians – “My Wife And My Dead Wife”

Robyn Hitchcock has never had a hit album or a hit single, but he’s had a long career and a, dedicated fan base, and he’s been very influential. He’s inspired many artists, including REM, who are big Robyn Hitchcock fans. He’s been the subject of two documentaries, 2007’s “Sex, Food, Death and Insects”, directed by John Edgington, and the concert film “Storefront Hitchcock”, directed by none other than Jonathan Demme, in 1998.

Last year, Robyn released his book “1967”, an autobiography of one key year in his life, 1967, along with an album of the same name where he covered some of his favorite songs from that year. I highly recommend both.

I hope you enjoyed this slightly spooky Halloween edition. We’ll be back in two weeks with another new episode. Until then, you can get caught up with all our previous episodes– there’s over 190 of them to choose from– and you’ll find all of them on your favorite podcast app; whether it’s Apple, Amazon, Spotify, Pandora, Google, we’re out there on all of them. Or you can go to our website and find all of our episodes there. That’s lovethatsonngpodcast.com.

If you’d like to support the show, the best thing you can do is to tell a friend about it. Share this podcast with your friends and family and help us to grow our audience.

You can also support this show by going to oldglory.com and buying a T-shirt or some merch. They have a lot of great stuff there. And if you use our discount code lovethatsong, you’ll save 15% and you’ll be helping to support this podcast. That’s oldglory.com with the discount code lovethatsong. Thanks.

So that is a wrap on this Halloween edition featuring Robyn Hitchcock with “My Wife And My Dead Wife”. I will see you back here next time. Trick or treat.

Creation & Evolution: Ram Jam – “Black Betty”

New Words & Music Adaptation by Huddie Ledbetter - Copyright 1963 (Renewed) 1977 (Renewed) Folkways Music Publishers Inc.

This episode, we return to the “Creation & Evolution” theme as we trace the history of the song called “Black Betty”. It’s a fascinating story, from its origins as an African-American work song to its transformation into a rock anthem by Ram Jam. We’ll explore the musical evolution of this enduring track. Join us for this captivating musical journey.

“Black Betty” New Words & Music Adaptation by Huddie Ledbetter – Copyright 1963 (Renewed) 1977 (Renewed) Folkways Music Publishers Inc.

Save 15% off t-shirts & merch from your favorite bands by using our discount code lovethatsong at OldGlory.com!

TRANSCRIPT:

Welcome back to the “I’m In Love With That Song” Podcast on the Pantheon Podcast Network. I’m Brad Page, host of the show, where each episode we take a song and put it under the microscope, so to speak, looking at all the elements that make the song work. We look at the performance, the arrangements, the production, all the various components that go into making a great song. No musical expertise is required here, this show is for anyone who’s curious about the strange alchemy, the magic of music.

This episode is the second in our occasional series that I call “Creation and Evolution”. This is where we look at songs that have an exceptionally long, involved, and sometimes convoluted history. You may remember that back on episode 152. I used the “Creation and Evolution” theme to explore the song “Midnight Train To Georgia”, that classic track from Gladys Knight and The Pips. Some songs are written pretty quickly, in a burst of inspiration. Other songs might be meticulously worked on, written and rewritten over time. But some songs, passed through various hands, are recontextualized or mutated as different writers and performers add their interpretations and revisions. Sometimes this can happen over generations.

Case in point, the song we’re discussing today has its roots, at the very latest, in 1935, but probably much older than that. Eventually, it made its way onto a single in 1977 by an unknown rock band who became a one-hit wonder thanks to this song. This is Ram Jam with “Black Betty”.

Tracking the history of the song called “Black Betty” is difficult to do with any certainty. Its origin is considered to be as an African-American work song. The first recorded version was by a prisoner named James “Ironhead” Baker. John Lomax and his son Alan traveled across the country recording and documenting the folk music of America. During a visit to the state prison in Sugarland, Texas, they recorded James Baker, along with other inmates, singing a version of “Black Betty”.

The most well-known version for quite some time was recorded by Huddie Ledbetter, otherwise known as Lead Belly. He was also a former prisoner, convicted of murder, who recorded dozens, maybe hundreds of songs for the Lomaxes that made Lead Belly famous… but never rich. In April 1939, Lead Belly recorded a medley of three work songs, “Looky, Looky Yonder and “Yellow Woman’s Doorbells”, with “Black Betty” sandwiched in between.

Lead Belly was credited as songwriter on that version, and his name still appears in the credits sometimes today. But the song surely predates him.

So, who– or what– exactly is “Black Betty”? Well, the first reference we know of was published by Benjamin Franklin, of all people, in 1736. Appears in his “Drinkers Dictionary” as a term for being drunk; when someone was pretty tipsy, you could say “he’s kissed Black Betty”. It could also refer to a whiskey bottle.

Others have described “Black Betty” as a whip that was used against prisoners. Some say it refers to a gun. And some people said it was a term for the transfer wagon at the penitentiary. That later morphed into referencing a cardinal or motorcycle. One thing that seems pretty clear in all of these early interpretations is that Black Betty was probably not a woman.

There are many more versions of “Black Betty”. Some notable versions include one by Odetta in 1964. Like Lead Belly, she included it in a medley with “Looky Yonder”.

You’ve probably noticed at this point, we’re getting some musical accompaniment with guitars, and not just the acapella version.

As far as I can tell, it first appeared in a rock context by Manfred Mann in 1968. But in their version, they called it “Big Betty”.

And by this time, the “Black Betty” in this song appears to have transformed into a woman.

Now, there was a band called the Lemon Pipers in the late sixties. They were signed to Neil Bogart’s Buddha label, home to quite a few bubblegum pop bands in the sixties and seventies. The label pushed the band into a more pop direction, and they did score one big hit, the psychedelic pop classic “Green Tambourine” in 1967.

By 1969, the Lemon Pipers had split up. Their guitarist and singer, Bill Bartlett, formed a Band called Starstruck. In 1973, Starstruck recorded their version of “Black Betty” as a single and released it on their own label. It ran 4:45 seconds and was performed by Tom Kurtz on rhythm guitar, David Fleeman on drums, David Goldflies on bass and Bill Bartlett on lead guitar and lead vocals.

And the song became a regional hit around the Cincinnati area. A couple of producers out of New York, Jerry Kasenetz and Jeffrey Katz, who had done a lot of work for Buddha Records, they heard the Starstruck version of “Black Betty” and thought they could do something with it. So, they took Bill Bartlett and formed a whole new band around him, which they called Ram Jam.

Ram Jam released their first album, self-titled, in 1977, which includes “Black Betty”. It’s actually the opening track on the album. But except for Bill Bartlett, none of the members of Ram Jam play on the song. Producers Kasenetz and Katz took the original Starstruck recording and edited it; they reordered the parts and deleted some sections altogether, editing the 4:45 seconds Starstruck version down to just 2:25 seconds for the Ram Jam single. Now, the version released on the Ram Jam album is closer to the original’s length– it’s 3:57 seconds. But once you know that this track has been significantly edited, you can pretty easily hear where the edits were made.

So, now let’s get into the track– and remember, this is just the same musicians that played on the Starstruck version, re-edited into this Ram Jam version.

It’s the same intro as the Starstruck version, including a gong with a phasing effect on it.

Here comes that gong again with more of that phasing or flanging effect on it.

Now, right there, is the first of the edits, and it’s maybe the most noticeable edit in the whole Song.

Now this is interesting… it’s actually kind of crazy. They are going to take the intro of the song– which you just heard less than a minute ago– and they’re going to splice it in here, repeating the exact same intro, including the same guitar solo again.

There’s clearly another edit right there. It’s particularly noticeable in the way the cymbal or gong is abruptly cut off rather than its natural decay.

They’re double tracking his vocals here.

Now, the Starstruck version has this whole guitar riff thing that they do here, and then they go into a sped-up version of the verse.  On the Ram Jam edit, they move that guitar riff to later in the song, and delete the sped up verse altogether. Instead, they take a different guitar riff from later in the song and move it up here.

We even get a little mini drum solo here.

After that, we get a short dual guitar harmonized part, and then the song speeds up, but only for the guitar solo. There’s no vocal part here.

Bill Bartlett is ripping it up on guitar there. But it’s equally impressive what the bass player and drummer are doing behind him. This was played by David Fleeman on drums and David Goldflies on bass, both from Starstruck.

And now here’s where they splice in that riff played earlier in the Starstruck version.

And here comes another drum break– It’s actually the same drum solo from earlier in the Song, edited back in again.

Here’s another twin guitar part. I really like this one. First, let’s hear just the guitars.

And now let’s hear that with the whole band.

“Black Betty” by Ram Jam. Or should I say Starstruck?

The song’s been covered quite a few times since then, including a version by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds; that version is pretty reminiscent of the old Lead Belly version.

I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that this song has had its share of controversy. The NAACP called for a boycott of the Ram Jam song when it first came out… and you can see why a bunch of white guys singing about “Black Betty” could be seen as offensive. But considering the fact that the song was originally written and performed by black artists, and it’s always been murky whether the song was about liquor, a gun, a prison wagon, a whip, or a woman, I feel comfortable enough including the song in this show. I hope you liked it, and maybe learned a little something about the creation and evolution of songs.

Thanks for joining me for this edition of the “I’m In Love With That Song” Podcast here on the Pantheon Podcast Network. If you’d like to support the show, one way to do it is to tell your friends about the show and help spread the word.

Another way you can support the show is to buy a t-shirt from oldglory.com. You’ll find shirts and merch from all your favorite bands at oldglory.com, and when you use our discount code, lovethatsong, you’ll get 15% off and you’ll be helping to support the show. The website is oldglory.com and the discount code is lovethatsong. Thanks in advance for helping us out. I will be back in about two weeks with another new episode. Until then, turn up your favorite version of “Black Betty”. Bam-a-Lam!

REFERENCES:

Ram Jam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Jam

Black Betty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Betty

Midnight Train to Georgia
Creation & Evolution: Gladys Knight & The Pips “Midnight Train To Georgia” – The “I’m In Love With That Song” Podcast – Music Commentary, Song Analysis & Rock History (lovethatsongpodcast.com)

James Ironhead Baker
https://www.allmusic.com/artist/james-iron-head-baker-mn0001048749

John Lomax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lomax

Alan Lomax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Lomax

Lead Belly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_Belly

Odetta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odetta

Manfred Mann
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Mann

Lemon Pipers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lemon_Pipers

Green Tambourine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Tambourine

Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Cave_and_the_Bad_Seeds

NAACP
https://naacp.org/