Cheap Trick is one of the great American bands. The new book, This Band Has No Past: How Cheap Trick Became Cheap Trick by Brian Kramp details their history from the very beginning up to their breakthrough album, Cheap Trick At Budokan. It’s an incredible story of hard work & dedication. On this edition of the podcast, Brian joins me to discuss 5 songs that reveal how unique and special Cheap Trick was in their early years. If you only know this band from their hits, this episode is a good introduction to what makes Cheap Trick Cheap Trick.

Besides being an author, Brian Kramp is the host of the “Rock And/Or Roll” podcast, one of my all-time favorite podcasts– an absolute must-listen for every music junkie. Check it out.

TRANSCRIPT:

‘Elo, Kiddies! Welcome to the “I’m in Love With That Song” podcast on the Pantheon Podcast Network. I’m your host, Brad Page Age, and I’ve got something really special lined up for you this time.

Brian Cramp is the host of the “Rock And/Or Roll” Podcast, one of my all-time favorite podcasts. And after a long hiatus, “Rock And/Or Roll” is back with brand new episodes. So I’m very excited about that. But in even bigger news, Brian has a new book out. It’s called “This Band Has No Past – How Cheap Trick Became Cheap Trick”. In this book, he tells the story of one of America’s greatest bands, from their very beginnings right up to their breakthrough album, “Cheap Trick at Budokan”.

The book is exhaustively researched and covers every detail. It was a very entertaining read, so I couldn’t be happier to have Brian join me on this episode to take a look at the early years of Cheap Trick.  For the uninitiated. That’s guitarist and primary songwriter Rick Nielsen, vocalist extraordinaire Robin Zander, the master of the 12-string bass Tom Petersson, and the incredible drummer, Bun E. Carlos.

Brian’s picked five songs as examples of why Cheap Trick is such a great band. And these songs are a great place to start if you’re just getting into Cheap Trick. So, we’re going to talk about these songs, talk about the band, and of course, talk about Brian’s new book. So here’s our conversation about how Cheap Trick became Cheap Trick.

[Music]

BRAD: Well, Brian Cramp, welcome to the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast. I’m a huge fan of the “Rock And/Or Roll” podcast, so I’m really happy to have you on the show. And I’m excited to introduce people to the new book, “This Band Has No Past – How Cheap Trick Became Cheap Trick”. The book will be available September 6, right

BRIAN: As of now, that’s the plan, yeah.

BRAD: September 6, 2022. But people can preorder it now, which I highly encourage people to do right now– go do it right now.

So, to get started, I know the book is, like, over 300 pages, and covers the earliest history of the band in great detail. So I know this is tough to ask, but if you could just give us a broad summary of where Cheap Trick came from and how the band came to be.

BRIAN: Yeah, that’s what the book really gets into. What I found interesting in telling the story is the collision that happened of the baby boom generation, and the British Invasion and the Beatles, and the British Invasion. And that’s exactly where Cheap Trick comes from.

All of them were teenagers, they loved the British Invasion and they all joined bands. So in the mid to late 60’s, all four members of Cheap Trick had their own band. They were all in different bands, but all in the Rockford area.

But the thing is, everybody was in a band. I have a statistic in the book that by 1967, I think it’s two thirds of males under the age of 23 were in a band. I mean, it’s an insane number, but that’s because at that time, what else did they have to do? They barely even had television. But there was nothing else. There were records, instruments… there’s so many distractions for young people these days, but back then, the internet, video games, all of that rolled into one was a guitar and an amp. That’s what they had.

BRAD: Yeah.

BRIAN: And eventually, the book almost becomes kind of like a day-to-day telling of how they formed, how they built this catalog of songs played almost every night of the week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, even in bars, almost all of them in Illinois and Wisconsin. They made plenty of treks to Michigan, Iowa, Minneapolis, stuff like that, and a few trips outside of that Midwest. But almost everything they did from like ‘73 to through ‘76 was in Illinois and Wisconsin. But it was every night, and just 1 bar after another.

BRAD: Well, one of the things they always say about the Beatles is that they weren’t really that great of a band until they went to Hamburg and played every night for 8 hours a night. And nothing will hone you as a band, both as an individual musician and as a unit, as that kind of level of playing together, and these guys put in that many hours and then some.

It’s interesting how Rick Nielsen, I think is, when you think of 70’s guitar icons, he’s definitely one of those guys that comes to mind. But he started his career as a keyboard player.

BRIAN: Yeah, well, he played guitar before that. He would go back and forth in the early versions of his band, The Grim Reapers. The Grim Reapers and Toast And Jam kind of merged at one point, when they decided they wanted to write their own songs. And there was this guitar player named Craig Myers, who everybody I’ve talked to says he was just a genius, a virtuoso. So, yeah, Rick kind of became the keyboard player. He would play guitar once in a while, but like on the record. Yeah, they made one record for Epic, and he played guitar on the album

BRAD: The Fuse album, right?

BRIAN: Yeah, they were called the Grim Reapers and the record label made them change their name. So, Rick had this band, the Grim Reapers, going back to 1965, but when they joined forces with the guys from Toast And Jam, it was a completely different band. But they still used the Grim Reapers name, just because that was the name with the most notoriety for getting bookings. It was a completely different band called The Grim Reapers, basically.

BRAD: And the Grim Reapers have a connection to Otis Redding and the infamous plane crash, right?

BRIAN: Yeah, they were the opening band for that show. And also, it’s important to mention Ken Adamany, who became Cheap Trick’s manager and was a huge part of writing this book, a lot of my information comes from him and I mean, he’s become a friend. He told me he considers me a friend, which was insane. Yeah, Ken Adamany owned the club, The Factory, where Otis was supposed to be playing. And Ken Adamany was booking bands since the late 50’s. He had his own band called The Night Trains, which is interesting, because he eventually ended up playing with Steve Miller and Boz Skaggs, who were going to the University of Wisconsin in Madison. And Ken kind of went from playing in his own band to eventually just becoming a guy who booked concerts and promoted concerts. And then he started managing some of his bands, and eventually his entire career became Cheap Trick for a while, pretty much. But, yeah, he owned The Factory, booked Otis Redding; The Grim Reapers, yeah, they were supposed to open. This was not the band that I was just talking about with Craig Myers and Tom Peterson, this was the earlier version of the Grim Reapers. So, the only guy from Cheap Trick in that band was Rick Nielsen. But, yeah, they were supposed to open, and then Otis’s plane crashed into Lake Minona, which is really just 5, 10-minute drive from where I am right now. Yeah.

BRAD: All right, so I had asked you to pick five songs that would kind of be like a primer for the first period of Cheap Trick. And so, let’s dig into some of those songs. The first one that  you wanted to talk about was a song called “Downed”.

[Music]

BRIAN: It’s hard to know when Rick wrote this song. It’s about a period when he thought about moving to Australia in, like, 1971.

BRAD: Yeah, that’s like one of the first lines of the song, right?  He references in Australia.

BRIAN: Yeah.  There’s even a newspaper article when the second version of Fuse that had Stewkey and Tom Mooney from Nazz in the band, when that band broke up, the newspaper said that all the guys were going to different places; Rick is going to Australia, Tom Peterson was going to Germany, Tom Mooney back to California, and Stewkey to Texas. That’s what it said in this newspaper article. And Rick has explained later that one of the reasons he didn’t go was because he couldn’t bring his dog [laughs].

[Music]

BRIAN: I’ve seen him kind of imply, too, that he wrote this song at that time. But the thing is, this song was never played with Sick Man of Europe, the band that he had in ‘71 to ’73, and it was never played in the earliest years of Cheap Trick. So, it’s weird if he would have had this song and then they never played it, so I’m not sure when it, but it is one of the earliest Cheap Trick songs.

BRAD: Well, that’s interesting, too, that it’s one of their earliest songs, but it’s not on their first record. It’s on the second album.

BRIAN: Yeah, most of the songs on the second album they had for the first album, including “I Want You To Want Me”.

BRAD: Me which is so incredible, because the classic thing that everybody says about bands, they have a lifetime to accumulate the songs on their first album and then after that, they’re kind of spent. The sophomore slump and all of that. But here’s a band that had such an incredible catalog of songs that they were able to draw on that for not just their second album, but their third, and even beyond that, which is pretty incredible.

BRIAN: Well, Jack Douglas picked about 20 songs for them to record during the sessions for their first album. And three of those songs were “I Want You To Want Me”, “Surrender” and “Dream Police”.  And then none of them were on the album.

BRAD: Well, “Downed”, the intro of the song is great. It’s this descending melody, really strong melody, reminiscent of, like, “Dear Prudence”, but there’s a million songs that do that. It’s got the Cheap Trick patented harmony vocals in there, and then it kicks in with that really heavy riff. And to me, it just encapsulates everything that’s great about the Cheap Trick sound in that one song. You’ve got it all: you get the melody, you got the heaviness, it’s all there. It’s just a super strong track.

BRIAN: Yeah, it really is. It’s a brilliant piece of work.

[Music]

BRAD: The second song that you picked is a song that brings us back to that first album, which there’s some history to this song, “The Ballad of TV Violence”. Why don’t you tell us the story of this track?

[Music]

BRIAN: Yeah, this is another one. One of the earliest Cheap Trick songs, definitely one of like the first ten. This song, I think, is a perfect example of what was so different about Cheap Trick. If you picture a song like this in 1975, if you really listen to the song, and then ask yourself , “who the hell would write this?”  It’s a very different song. It’s a very unique, brilliant song, I think, but it’s really odd in a lot of ways, because the song is about Richard Speck, a mass murderer, and you’ve got Robin Zander kind of playing that role. By the end, he’s just screaming. Just screaming like a maniac.

[Music]

BRIAN: It’s an insane song. I mean, there’s a concert they played, on Mother’s Day in a park in Rockford in 1975. And they play this song. And you’re just thinking, “This song is insane. And they’re playing it to a bunch of families in the park.” There’s an article in the newspaper about all the families out for this nice spring day. It’s Mother’s Day. And then the band is playing this song

BRAD: This song about a mass murderer. And the original title of the song was “The Ballad of Richard Speck” or something, right?

BRIAN: Yeah. Richard Speck was a spree killer in Chicago, in I think the late 50’s that happened.

BRAD: Yeah. He murdered a bunch of nurses, right?

BRIAN: Yeah. I think he murdered eight young women just in one night. This insane crime. Yeah.

BRAD: It’s a horrific story.

Speaker C: Yes. And since it was in Chicago, it was virtually like a local event for Cheap Trick, you know?

BRAD: So “The Ballad of TV Violence”, it’s got a great stomping riff to it. I love how the guitar kind of follows the vocal. It’s like you said, Robin is just shredding his voice at the end of the song. I imagine this must have been the last session of the day, because I can’t imagine going back and singing anything else after he finishes this take. It’s intense.

[Music]

BRAD: Well, another song off the first record that you picked is a song called “He’s A Whore”. What’s the story behind this one?

BRIAN: This song came after the last two songs we talked about, at least by a little bit, but they had it by ‘75. And I mean, this is kind of the quintessential Cheap Trick song, really, especially the early version of Cheap Trick. And you think about a song like this in 1975, it’s almost a punk song. It’s just a perfect example of how unique and original Rick Nielsen’s songwriting was at the time. Rick Nielsen’s songwriting is probably more influential than we even realize. You know, the bands like Kiss and even Cheap Trick, a lot of the people they influenced are not considered, by elitist or pretentious people or whatever, they’re not considered top-tier bands, or important bands, or whatever. But if you look at all these people that started bands in the ‘80’s and even the ‘90’s, tons of them were influenced by Cheap Trick. And Rick Nielsen was, his songwriting style was very individual and unique. The way he played guitar and the way he wrote songs, he really developed his own style. And I think this song is a perfect example. Nobody else would have written this song.

[Music]

BRIAN: I think it’s just a brilliant song. But it’s so Cheap Trick. It really kind of sums it up about what was unique and special about the early years of Cheap Trick, I think.

BRAD: Yeah, it’s a classic Robin Zander vocal. And, I mean, he still sounds like that today, which is incredible. Then you’ve got Rick’s backing vocals, which are again, it’s a trademark Cheap Trick sound, those backing vocals that he does.

[Music]

BRAD: The song clocks in at 2 minutes and 43 seconds. I mean, there’s not a second wasted in this song. And that’s, that’s a Cheap Trick thing, too. I mean, all of these songs we’re talking about today, but just in general, their songs are always tight. You know, “Downed” is just over four minutes; “Ballad Of TV Violence” clocks in at over five minutes. But that’s about as long as a Cheap Trick song ever really gets.

[Music]

BRIAN: And a really interesting thing I have in the book is, Ken Adamany had told me a story about how Rick Nielsen, when he would write some lyrics, he would call Ken Adamany’s office, he was the manager of Cheap Trick, and he would dictate the lyrics over the phone to Ken’s secretary, who would take them down in shorthand and then she would type them up. So, then Rick had his lyrics typed, you know, and so Ken Adamany still has this piece of yellow paper from a legal pad, says “He’s A Whore” at the top, and then it’s a bunch of shorthand symbols. And the picture of that is in the book. It’s pretty amazing.

BRAD: Shorthand. Talk about a lost art, right?

BRIAN: It’s hilarious, too, because it’s all these shorthand symbols and you get town towards the bottom and you just see the word “gigolo”, because there’s no shorthand symbol for ‘gigolo”.

BRAD: That’s great. All right, so the fourth track on your list jumps ahead to the third album, a song called “Auf Wiedersehen”. It’s the first song we’ve talked about that wasn’t entirely written by Rick Nielsen; this one, Rick and bass player Tom Petersson share writing credit. But what’s the history of “Auf Wiedersehen”?

BRIAN: Well, they had it for the first album. They had this song, was written in ‘76. It seems like the original title of it was “Kamikaze”. There’s at least one article where the author refers to it as that. That might have been the original title. But again, this is a perfect example of how unique and interesting Rick Neilsen’s songwriting was, especially for the time; it’s another song that’s completely insane. I do a podcast with Ken Mills called “Cheap Talk” where Ken has laughed multiple times on the podcast about when I brought up the concept of you go see Cheap Trick at like a state fair, and by the end of the show, Rob Zander is just screaming suicide over and over at the top of his lungs. It’s a perfect example of early Cheap Trick and how out there it was. But also, it’s a great song. It’s such a cool song, the riffs are amazing.

[Music]

BRAD: Yeah, you’re right, it’s a great riff. Great riff. It’s another pretty tight song, this one’s 3 minutes and 41 seconds long. You can clearly hear Tom Petersson’s 12-string bass at the beginning of it, which is kind of another element of their sound. Not that many people are playing– still today, not that many people play the 12-string bass. Kind of an integral part of their sound in a lot of ways. And Robin’s voice, this is his classic punky voice.

[Music]

BRAD: In your book, you point out what a great mimic Robin was as just as a singer. He really is a guy who could sing anything.

BRIAN: Yeah. And it’s interesting, because when Robin first joined Cheap Trick, when he was like, 20, 21 years old, I don’t think he knew exactly what he was capable of. And I think he learned as he went. He mostly sang, like, folk music, and he was playing for years. He would play Neil Young. Bee Gees, early Bee Gees, Crosby Stills and Nash, he was doing a lot of stuff.

BRAD: Yeah, he was mostly performing as a duo with another guitar player, right? They were primarily acoustic kind of stuff.

BRIAN: Right. Yeah, he did that for years. And he had never really been in a rock band. He had a couple of flirtations with it. But if you hear the really earliest recordings that are available of Robin with Cheap Trick, you can tell that he really developed his vocals, and I think actually learned what he was capable of. You know, eventually Rick Nielsen just starts using Robin’s voice as another instrument. That’s another facet of Rick Nielsen’s songwriting is, he only could write some of the songs he wrote because he knew Robin could sing it.

BRAD: Yeah, there’s so many influences in there. You mentioned it right at the top that all of these guys were big fans of The Beatles and the British Invasion. So, you’ve got The Beatles influence and The Who and all of that. But there’s just elements of everything in his songwriting, and the fact that he had a singer who could pull off whatever he gave him, like whether it was a Beatles pop melody or just an all-out screamer, or something that had that kind of punky edge to it. He could write whatever he wanted and Robin could sing it.

BRIAN: Yep. Yeah, that was very important because it gave Rick Nielsen the freedom to just kind of go wild with his songwriting and run the gamut, from nice and sweet and syrupy to completely over the top insane screaming at the top of your lungs.

BRAD: And that brings us to the last song that you had on your list, which is “On Top of the World”, which is one of my favorite Cheap Trick songs. It’s got everything. It’s got that Peter Gunn style guitar riff at the top. Then it goes into that brilliant chorus that is super catchy. The verses have these very… it’s not a three-chord blues type of riff, there’s a lot of chords in there. It’s very kind of Beatlesque. There’s the piano in there, I assume that’s Rick playing the piano on the track? And then at the end, you have almost this ELO-style, Beatlesque bit at the end. I mean, once again, all the elements of what make Cheap Trick great are in this track.

[Music]

BRIAN: So this is the only song I picked that they didn’t have in the early years. This is one that was actually written probably right before “Heaven Tonight”. They had never even played this song live before they recorded the album. But to me, this is one of the most incredible songs of all time, by anyone. And I think it’s really a quintessential example of exactly how brilliant Rick Nielsen was and exactly how great this band was. The arrangement of this song is stunning. I don’t know how anyone could not be impressed by a song like this. This is one of the best examples, I think, of the capabilities of Rick and the band. It’s an amazing, incredible song.

[Music]

BRIAN: The arrangement and the melodies and the instrumentation and the musicians playing it, everything about it is pretty stunning. Yeah, I thought it was a good way to round it out and maybe the best example, just in terms of songwriting and arrangement, it’s one of the best examples you’re going to find of the brilliance of Rick and Cheap Trick.

BRAD: Yeah, and I think it points in the direction that the band would follow. You’ve got a guy who can write a song like this and of course, a guy who can sing it, but also a band who can execute on all these different parts and changes. It’s kind of like a little mini tour de force of what makes Cheap Trick such a great and unique band. It’s, it’s a great song.

[Music]

BRIAN: Yeah, exactly. Both Jack Douglas and Tom Werman, who have worked with a lot of bands, both basically say Cheap Trick are the favorite band they ever worked with, the best band they ever worked with, the tightest band. They took the least amount of time in the studio. They would just hammer everything out, play it perfectly, because they had been doing it for so long by that point. And they were at the top of their game. But also, they were very creative and unique. Rick Nielsen always injects an element of kind of sloppiness or just wackiness into everything, which I think in some ways, is one of the reasons, maybe, that people don’t realize quite how talented and skilled he was, because he never took himself seriously and never really let anybody else take him seriously, either.

BRAD: Right.

BRIAN: But if you look past that, a song like this makes it so obvious how talented they were.

BRAD: So the book is called “This Band Has No Past”. Obviously, you’ve got to love a band to devote that much time and energy into writing a book about them like this. How did you first get into Cheap Trick?

BRIAN: Well, they were always around when I was growing up. But when I was a kid, everything for me was about heavy metal. So, I knew Cheap Trick, I had a couple of their records ‘cause I would buy records at my local record store for a buck. And so, in my first, like, 50 records I had, I had “In Color” and “Dream Police” in there or something. But they were not one of my favorite bands when I was growing up, it wasn’t until I got to college and it was really the revelation of the first album, which I had no idea about until I was in college and started just collecting records like a maniac. And when I heard the first Cheap Trick album, that was kind of the realization of, wait a minute, this is the same band? That album probably my favorite album of all time. It’s very different from anything else in Cheap Trick’s catalog. And it blew me away at the time. And then I got “One On One”, it’s another of my favorite Cheap Trick albums that I just had no idea about when I was growing up. Once I started getting their entire catalog, and learning more about them, they just became my favorite when I was in college. Of course, Kiss was my favorite band growing up.

BRAD: Yeah, me too.

BRIAN: That’s another thing: I went to college in Madison, where Cheap Trick were complete legends. That was like their home away from home. They were from Rockford, but Madison was where Ken Adamany, their manager, was based. They had a huge fan base there. I don’t know, it just went from there. But yeah, I became kind of obsessed.

BRAD: And what inspired you to write the book?

BRIAN: When I started the podcast– which was one of the smartest things I ever did– I met a lot of people; one of my earliest episodes, I had Greg Renoff on, and this is when he was just working on “Van Halen Rising”. I guess that was part of my inspiration. My original idea was to pitch a “33 1/3” book about the first album; that’s that I first started working on. And I started interviewing people, including some people from the record label. And then I talked to this guy named Jim Charney, who was part of signing the band to Epic, worked for Epic at the time. Turns out Jim Charney had been friends with Ken Adamany since the late ‘60’s. And he’s like, “I could put you in touch with Ken”. And for me, Ken Adamany was like this mythic figure. You know, anybody who was a fan of Cheap Thick just knows about Ken Adamany. But by the time I became a fan, that was kind of around the time they broke ties with Ken. So, Jim Charney puts me in touch with Ken Adamany, and then Ken Adamany gets involved. And that’s when I started to realize that might I have to expand the scope of this thing. And then I was supposed to go meet with Ken, and when the meeting finally happened, he got Bun E. Carlos to come. So, then I had this, like, three-and-a-half hour meeting with Ken Adamany and Bun E. Carlos, and it’s like “OK, OK… Now this is really turning into something.” So, this has been like five years in the making.

BRAD: What were the biggest things you learned writing the book?

BRIAN: I guess I learned that with a project like this, there’s a long period of time where you might not, would never even say it out loud or admit it to someone, but you’re not sure you can actually accomplish what you’re trying to accomplish. And at some point you get over the hump and then it’s a downward slope. And that’s an amazing moment when you realize, “I actually am going to pull this off. I actually can do this.” It’s an insane process to get from a blank page to a 400-page book. So I guess one lesson is, you can do it. I wasn’t anybody, but I just tried. So, if you want to do something like this and you think that you can do it, even if you feel like nobody else thinks you can, there’s no harm in trying, so…

BRAD: Well, we mentioned a few times throughout this episode, you host a podcast called “Rock And/O Roll”, you’ve been doing it for years and that’s how you and I first connected. And you’ve recently relaunched the podcast, which I am totally psyched about. So, just drop a few hints or tidbits about what you’ve got coming up on your podcast.

BRIAN: Well, I. Have a whole bunch of interviews in the can with guys from the history of power pop from the 70’s & 80’s, that’s one thing that’s coming up, and probably a series about Colonel Tom Parker, Elvis’s con-man grifter manager. And then episodes here and there that’ll be similar to what I used to do.

BRAD: That’s awesome. I’m particularly looking forward to those power pop interviews, that’ll be great. I said it before, and I will never stop giving you credit for it, it was you and a handful of shows like yours that inspired me to start this podcast. This show would not have ever existed without you, so I thank you so much for that. And I thank you so much for coming on the show today. Brian Cramp, the podcast is “Rock And/Or Roll”. It’s available again on your favorite podcast service. The book is called “This Band Has No Past – How Cheap Trick Became Cheap Trick” It’ll be available September 6, 2022, published by Jawbone Press, right? That’s the publisher?

BRIAN: Yeah, they’re a publisher out of the UK. Do you have their Todd Rundgren book?

BRAD: Mm-hmm.

BRIAN: I figured.

BRAD: Yep. Yep. Yeah. So, Jawbone Press. You can order it from Amazon today. You can get it from your local bookstore. Brian, so good to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

BRIAN: All right, thanks, Brad.

BRAD: And thanks to everyone for listening to this episode on Cheap Trick. They’re an amazing band with a really rich, deep catalog. I hope this episode gave you a taste of what the band has to offer and inspires you to check out more of their records. You’ll be glad you did.

Brian’s podcast “Rock And/Or Roll” is part of the Pantheon Podcast Network, right alongside this show and dozens of other music related shows. So please check out “Rock And/Or Roll” and some of the other shows on the Pantheon Network of podcasts.

The “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast will be back in a couple of weeks with a brand new episode, so stay tuned for that. In the meantime, follow us on Facebook and check out our previous episodes on our website, lovethatsongpodcast.com, as well as anywhere you can find podcasts.

Thanks again for listening to this episode on Cheap Trick. Farewell, sayonara, auf wiedersehen, so long.

The Angels (known as “Angel City” in the US) are one of those fantastic bands that made it big in their home country– in this case, Australia– but never caught on in the US. A shame, because these guys had it all: big riffs, great hooks, and clever lyrics. Let’s check out this great track from the band I like to think of as “the intellectual AC/DC”.

“Look The Other Way” (Rick Brewster, Doc Neeson, John Brewster, Brent Eccles) Copyright 1984 ATR/EP/Cat Songs

— This show is just one of the many great podcasts on the Pantheon Podcasts network. Try ’em– you’ll like ’em! And remember to subscribe to this show, so you never miss an episode.

Greg Renoff, author of “Van Halen Rising: How a Southern California Backyard Party Band Saved Heavy Metal” and “Ted Templeman: A Platinum Producer’s Life in Music”, joins us to talk about a pivotal album in his youth, “Burn” by Deep Purple. It also happens to be one of my favorite albums, too. We also spend some time talking about the first solo LP from bass player Glenn Hughes, another personal favorite of mine.

If you liked this episode, check out the previous episode where we do a deep dive into the song “Burn”: www.lovethatsongpodcast.com/deep-purple-burn/

— This show is one of many great podcasts on the Pantheon Podcasts network. Check ’em out!

In our previous episode, we looked at the history of instrumental songs that topped the pop charts. For my money, there’s never been a more unlikely hit instrumental than the synth-infused, riff-heavy stomper that is Edgar Winter’s “Frankenstein”. This episode, we break down this instrumental classic featuring Edgar Winter on keyboards, sax and drums.

“Frankenstein” (Edgar Winter) Copyright 1972 EMI Longitude Music

— This show is part of the Pantheon podcast network — THE place for music junkies, geeks, nerds, diehards and fans!

Aerosmith was a band on the brink of self-destruction when they set up in an old convent to record their next album in 1977. But despite the tension, drug abuse and general bad behavior, they managed to lay down a few great tunes, including “Kings And Queens“. Let’s dig into this Aerosmith classic.

If you enjoyed this episode on Aerosmith, check out this previous show on their classic track “Seasons Of Wither”: https://lovethatsongpodcast.com/aerosmith-seasons-of-wither/

“Kings And Queens” (Tom Hamilton, Joey Kramer, Steven Tyler, Brad Whitford and Jack Douglas) Copyright 1977 Daksel Music Corp. and Song And Dance Music Co. All rights administered by Unichappel Music, Inc.

TRANSCRIPT:

Welcome, jesters, minstrels, and Knights of the Round Table. This is the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast on the Pantheon Podcast Network. I’m your host, Brad Page, and on this episode, we’ll be traveling back through the mists of history to the time of “Kings And Queens” with Aerosmith.

Aerosmith and I have one small thing in common: I was born in New Hampshire and grew up in Massachusetts– and you could say the same thing for Aerosmith. The band members met around Lake Sunapee, a vacation area in New Hampshire where families from the Boston area, and as far away as from New York, would vacation for the summer. In the 1960’s, with all the teenagers in town just looking for something to do, the area became a place where a half-decent band could get steady gigs during the summer, and that’s where Joe Perry, Tom Hamilton, and Steven Tyler met. They eventually moved to Boston, Massachusetts, and over time, Joey Kramer and Brad Whitford joined the band, and that became the classic lineup of Aerosmith.

By 1977, Aerosmith was one of the biggest rock bands in the country. The days of struggling to make it, sharing a house together, and scrounging up enough cash just to get by– those days were over, but success brought with it a whole bunch of other problems, especially the drugs.

When Aerosmith began work on what would be their new album, the situation was not great. From the start, Joey Kramer, Tom Hamilton, and Brad Whitford had spent a month prior doing some pre-production, working up new material and some ideas. But Steven Tyler and Joe Perry were nowhere to be found. They never showed up.

Looking to try something different, to get out from the traditional studio into a different environment, the band rented an estate in New York, an isolated place in the mountains on 100 acres with a half mile long driveway. It was called The Cenacle. Built in the 1920s, it had been most recently used as a convent.

Tom, Brad, Joey, along with producer Jack Douglas, moved into the house, and eventually Joe and Steven showed up separately, and promptly disappeared into their rooms and didn’t come down for days. For the recording, Jack Douglas set up each band member in a different space in the house; Joey’s drums were set up in the chapel. Joe Perry’s guitar was recorded in a big walk-in fireplace, and Steven Tyler’s vocal booth was on the second floor. But not a lot of work was getting done. The days were spent shooting guns, driving their cars around the area at dangerous speeds, and just getting loaded. Cocaine and heroin were the drugs of choice.

The fractures were clear. Joey Tom and Brad, who did more than their share of partying, would still be able to pull it together enough in the evenings to work on recording, but Joe and Steven would rarely show up. Joe Perry was clearly dopesick. He’d work for a couple of hours and then disappear back to his room for days at a time. In later years, Joe Perry would describe this period as “we were drug addicts dabbling in music, rather than musicians dabbling in drugs”.

After six long weeks of recording at The Cenacle, the album was still unfinished, but the band packed up and headed home. On the way back to Boston, Joey Kramer crashed his Ferrari doing 135 on the highway, and shortly after Joe Perry crashed his Corvette. That’s what life was like for Aerosmith in the late seventies, like a series of car wrecks.

They would eventually finish the album at the record plant in between gigs. One of the songs that they worked on at the Cenacle and would finish later was “Kings And Queens”.

Now, most of the classic Aerosmith songs were written by Joe Perry and Steven Tyler, but “Kings And Queens” was written by Brad Whitford, Tom Hamilton and Joey Kramer. Later, Steven Tyler and Jack Douglas would come up with the lyrics together. So all five of them share writing credit. But it was really Whitford, Hamilton and Kramer that put the music together back at The Cenacle when Steven and Joe were nowhere to be found– Joe Perry is barely on the track at all.

So, let’s get into the song. It begins with the main riff: classic guitar, bass and drums.

Build into the first verse.

First, let’s look at Steven Tyler’s vocals here. I think he sounds great on this song. Some of his best work is when he’s singing lyrics that are on the darker side. He’s really able to nail that eerie, foreboding mood here.

This song doesn’t have a traditional song structure. There’s no chorus really. And this next line is one of the few times he actually uses the song title. It comes around at the end, but there it’s buried in the mix. This is the only time “Kings And Queens” is up-front in the mix.

Let’s take a listen to some of the other things going on in this track. The bass part couldn’t be more simple. It doesn’t sound like much on its own, but when you combine that with the drums, guitars and other parts, it creates the essential foundation for the feel of the song. Other bass players wouldn’t be able to resist the temptation to gussy up their part. But Tom Hamilton surrenders his ego for the benefit of the song. And as we’ll hear later on, he gets his moment to shine.

Besides the guitar, bass and drums, there’s some other instruments here too. Most interesting, I think, is the banjo, played by Paul Prestopino.

Now, one instrument I don’t associate with medieval England is the banjo, but they really make it work here. For those of you already familiar with this song, I wonder how many of you noticed the banjo before?

And notice they’ve added harmony vocals here.

Another instrument in the mix is a mandolin, played by producer Jack Douglas. It’s a little harder to hear in the mix, but you can kind of pick it out. Listen to the channel on the right.

At this point, the main riff returns and this time, they’ve added a screeching guitar part on top of it. It’s reminiscent of that classic soundtrack to the movie “Psycho”.

In concert, Joe Perry would play that part. I’m not sure who plays it on the recording. And if you listen closely, it sounds to me like Steven Tyler is also singing that note.

Check out this great drum fill by Joey Kramer. As the drum fill reaches a crescendo, a new element is added, a string section. The chord changes are also a little different.

In this next verse, let’s hear what one of Brad Whitford’s guitars is doing under this.

And if we take the guitars and the bass out of the mix, you can hear a little more clearly what the string section is doing.

Brad Whitford doubles Tyler’s vocal line there.

I love the way that guitar slides up into that riff.

That little pinging sound there, that’s Brad Whitford’s guitar. He’s doing some nice stuff that’s deep in the mix here. Let’s listen to some of that.

And now, here’s where things get even more interesting. Almost a little bit of Prog Rock, Aerosmith-style. I love this section.

The song breaks for an interlude that features the bass and a piano, which is an instrument we haven’t heard up until this point. Let’s just listen to Tom Hamilton’s bass part.

Now let’s go back and listen to the piano part. It’s Steven Tyler playing the piano here. Notice how it’s recorded. The high notes played with the right hand are in the right channel. The low notes played with the left hand are in the left channel.

You can hear how the low notes on the piano are duplicating exactly what the bass guitar is doing. By doubling those up, it really punches up both parts. They’re stronger together than each part playing individually. Let’s listen to the finished mix here.

Then the whole band comes in for a very ethereal solo section. Now, Joe Perry is lauded as the guitar hero in Aerosmith, but Brad Whitford is always overlooked and underrated. He may be overshadowed by Joe Perry’s rock stardom, but Whitford is every bit an equally talented player. It’s Whitford who takes the solo on this song. And it’s a great one.

Brad Whitford. That’s a great solo. It’s an interesting guitar sound too. A notched EQ tone. If I had to guess, I’d say he’s probably using a wah-wah pedal in a fixed position to get that tone. Something that David Bowie’s guitarist Mick Ronson used to do all the time. It’s what they call a “cocked wah” tone coming out of the guitar solo.

The band plays this cool little passage leading into the next section. After the guitar solo, we enter the final section of the song where Steven Tyler sings kind of a vocal round as the band churns away underneath.

And let’s take a closer look at the arrangement here, especially the layers of guitars. Here are the drums, vocals and at least two guitar tracks panned left and right.

And then we have these guitar tracks layered on top. Let’s bring everything back into the mix.

Aerosmith – “Kings And Queens”.

Steven Tyler said “the band comes up with the licks and then the music talks to me and tells me what it’s about.This one was just about how many people died from holy wars because of their beliefs or non-beliefs. With that one, my brain was back with the knights of the roundtable and all that.”

Well, thanks for joining me for this epic journey into a great song. We’ll be back in two weeks with another episode. Be sure to join me on Facebook, just look for the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast, where you can keep up with what’s happening on the show. And if you’d like to leave a review or a comment on the show, head over to podchaser.com. Podchaser is the best place to leave your feedback. Of course, all our past episodes are available there and on our website, lovethatsongpodcast.com.

We are also just one of a bunch of amazing podcasts on the Pantheon Podcast Network. Whatever music you’re into, there’s more great podcasts for you on Pantheon, so check them out.

As I head back into my castle and pull up the drawbridge behind me, I’ll leave you with one last look at “Kings And Queens” by Aerosmith.

If you’re anything like me, after listening to a deep dive like this, you’ll want to hear the whole song again. So go buy the album or the CD, or the MP3 files and support the music you love.

RESOURCES:

Aerosmith
https://www.aerosmith.com/

Lake Sunapee
https://www.lakesunapeenh.org/

Pantheon Podcast Network
https://pantheonpodcasts.com/

Podchaser
https://www.podchaser.com/

lovethatsongpodcast.com
http://www.lovethatsongpodcast.com/

Psycho (Movie)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054215/

Record Plant
https://www.recordplant.com/